Pay girl outta the bar (pay out discussion)

[Old Hippie]

torrenova

 

Could you explain to me/us, if I live with a girl who works in YOUR bar, am I expected to pay this buy out fee, or a daily barfine? Keep in mind, she shows up for work when expected, as she would at any job. If she decides to take a week off for a family reason such as a sisters/brothers wedding, funeral or what ever, is she supposed to pay you for this privilidge?

 

Any job I ever had, indeed even a few jobs in LOS I dare say, allow a reasonable amount of time off. If the girl is a good employee, ie. shows up, does her job, doesn't steal, why wouldn't you take her back after a monts absence? or a week? I can see if she is going with different guys charging a bar fine, but a serious Boy friend situation might be different, especially if she lives with the guy. Also, in YOUR bar, do the same rules apply to the girls if their man is Thai? I know many women (some older) who work in bars as bar tenders and waitresses etc, who are married and don't go with customers, do YOU expect their husband to pay this fee also? There comes a point when some of these fees get rediculis...

[Guest]

To nobody in particular.

 

I'm again completely with Fky here. Seems we agree on more and more nowadays.

 

Anyway, remember the first P in P4P. You want to play your supposed to pay. As the bar business is girls for hire, I fully understand that they'll at least try to get some money when a customer is taking a girl out for a longer period. Nobody really knows how long it'll be at first. But everywhich way you look at it, it's business for the bar and business for the girl.

I can understand that the bar at least tries to get something out of it. Of course the bar can't really enforce it legally if the girl is just to leave.

I honestly don't understand why so many are always complaining about the cost of the various aspects in the P4P scene. It's a type of business that is focussing on getting as much money as possible from customers in the shortest period of time. This is the case almost everywhere around the world.

As far as I know nobody is forced to pay anything if one doesn't want to. And if the scene is above one's budget than don't participate.

 

As to other, more regular jobs. There is indeed no "bar" fine. However, in many cases there is a sum to be paid in advance as a guarantee. If an employee leave without due notice, this money is forfeited.

 

Would I ever pay the bar? Now, but then I dont' indulge either.

[Guest]

Quote:

"As far as I know nobody is forced to pay anything if one doesn't want to. And if the scene is above one's budget than don't participate.

 

As to other, more regular jobs. There is indeed no "bar" fine. However, in many cases there is a sum to be paid in advance as a guarantee. If an employee leave without due notice, this money is forfeited.

 

Crap, and more crap. I never paid an employer to work for him before I started work nor have I heard of anybody else doing so. Such pracices fall in the realm of trying to get a person to work as an indentured servant.

 

 

You claim there is indeed no bar fine - read what this whole posting is about - it is about bar fines and paying a large money to get a girl out of a bar!

 

 

Regarding the initial question of paying a beer fine payout - don't.

 

The whole issue revolves the beer fine some bars impose on its customers.

 

Even the wording, 'beer fine' is a misnomer - obviously, to the intelligent mind, it is not a fine, nor does it have anything to do with beer. It is not a 'fine' to 'legally' take a woman out of a bar. Furthermore, this 'fine' is applicable to only certain bars. For example, if a person goes to the Beer Garden on soi 7 and ask a lady to leave with him, there is no 'fine'. If a person goes to Foodland, which serves beer, and ask an employee to leave with them, there is no 'fine' as it is with other businesses.

 

So why do only a few bars impose a 'fine' on beer, even if the person drinks only Pepsi? Probably because the customer will pay it and never complain. I wish it was that simple, if it was, I would tell people they need to pay a Pepsi fine every time they drink a beer. Imagine how rich I would be in just one week!

 

But the problem becomes worse when the lady no longer wants to return to the bar. She generally has to pay a large fine, generally 10,000 baht or more. How many people have ever paid a fine for leaving a business? If they have, people probably look at them as being stupid. Not just stupid, but really, really stupid! Many in the world now claim this type of business dealings falls under the category of indentured service - what used to be called slavery. The world looks at indentured slavery as one of the many forms of human trafficking. How many people want to be part of this?

 

Falangs claim they detest paying for 'tea money' but for some reason never object to paying a 'fine' for beer, even if all they were drinking was Pepsi.

 

I recommend not paying the 'tea money', nor paying the 'beer' 'fine'. This may irritate some, especially those of a criminal inkling, but that is their problem - not mine. Falangs claim they detest governmental officials that take bribes but see nothing wrong in paying a 'beer fine' for something they get nothing in return except the knowledge that the money now lines the pocket of its new owner.

 

The sad part of all of this is that falangs that come to Thailand and start such businesses or manage such businesses; make it only harder for other falangs who want to come to Thailand.

 

If a person pays bar fines then do not complain abouy any of the other forms of corruption in Thailand.

[Old Hippie]

O,

 

I think the issue is if a guy runs into a girl on her off day, or after work, and he decides to go with her, why should he have to pay a bar fine? Same if he want's to take her to Ko Samui or what not, simple, the bar doesn't pay her for the time she is away. what I don't get is, say she is going to be gone for 3 months holiday with a guy, he pars a 10,000 fee, she still gets her salary(?) and can return, and she also gets a part of the fee? so how does the bar make money? I know plenty of girls who have left bars for extended periods of time, and returned later, no problem about it...

[torrenova]

Old Hippie,

 

You nor anyone else would live with a girl who works for me and goes with farangs. The girls do not have boyfriends, farang or Thai - period. Have boyfriend = no job.

 

If I decide to employ someone who does not want to go with farangs then that is completely different.

 

The reason for this is customer satisfaction. If I have a guy take a girl out LT and she wants to do a bunk at 6am or whatever to go back to her boyfriend then I run the risk that the punter will not come back to my bar. He could be a big spender on the first day of a month's holiday. I stand to lose out substancially.

 

The girls can have numerous farang "boyfriends" who stay with them when they come to Pattaya but the guys have to come to the bar each day, have a drink and pay the barfine. They can't just pay 10 days' barfine and disappear. I make no money from that. Very rare exceptions made for good customers.

 

As to your question regarding time off. The girls work seven days a week with varying shifts. Time off is given regularly and the girls are encouraged to plan ahead and speak with the other girls as to when they want time off.

 

For emergencies, they can go immediately. We usually assist with some cash as do the other girls. No timescale is required for their return and they are not cut any pay whilst they are away. We just ask that they keep in contact.

 

To enlighten you further, one girl had a front tooth chipped when a farang (US military) raised a beer bottle and it clipped her tooth. He should have had the curtousy to pay but he did not. I was not going to ask him as I am not in the habit of pissing off my customers. So the bar (read me) paid the Bt700 to have her tooth repaired.

 

I'm not saying that some other bar owners don't do the same but for me, happy staff equals happy punters and happy punters stay in the bar longer and frequent more often, buying more beer in the process.

[MaiLuk]

Sometimes farang miss the loyalty aspects between the bars and the girls.

 

The comparison between a BG and a dept store/mcdonald?s employee doesn?t hold up. The girl is leaving the gogo solely because she has hooked up with a punter who is a CUSTOMER of that GOGO. The gogo bar feels that she has hit the jackpot with the bar?s customer, the girl should share the wealth hence the 10,000 baht. Punters can talk about how its love and romance, not business so i shouldn't have to pay. This is nonsense to a bar owner, and in most cases to the girl also.

 

The line gets fuzzy when its not a customer but someone she met outside the bar. This is where the loyalty thing comes in that most farang ignore. The bar provides the girl with the opportunity to make money by going with the bar?s ustomers. In return she is expected to be loyal to the bar

and provide exclusive services to the bar. That is why if you meet her after closing, she will be looking around to make sure the mamasan (or other girls from the bar) don?t see her go with you. If she is seen, some bars will fire her unless she came forward with a barfine. Many girls will just tell you ?sorry, cannot go with you.?

 

Farang focus on individual rights, personal freedom etc. A thai girl has different priorities, and is a poor team player if she does not share her jackpot or make sure her bar gets a barfine when she hooks up. Not all that different from farangland. My guess is half the guys on this board have an

exclusive agreement with their employers. I don?t need to go into details about what happens if you work for your company and a competitor at the same time, or start your own business on the side, right?

 

And the buy out has nothing to do with trafficking or ndentured servants. No one is asking the girl to pay the bar to leave a farang gogo, the payment is supposed to come from the punter who in most cases met the girl at that bar. This is a major difference and guys are stretching it to call it

trafficking. The girl can walk anytime without paying a single baht (tho I?m sure there are some exceptions out there).

[pattaya127]

:::

I read the last few posts, this sounds so fucking complicated! Keep it simple: How about BFing Bgs and falling in love with freelancers goddamitt!!!! :D

[Guest]

Old Hippie,

 

You nor anyone else would live with a girl who works for me and goes with farangs. The girls do not have boyfriends, farang or Thai - period. Have boyfriend = no job.

 

Well, it is obvious that you operate a different kind of bar with a different kind of staff than I have experience with here in LOS, including several of my own.

 

As to having boyfriends, Thai or Farang, IME many do, some even have husbands. Certainly some of my staff did have over the years, so I guess you must have found an extrodinary group who avoid all these personal complications and have the ideal work situation. Lucky you, lucky them.

[MooNoi]

If you want to remove from of my staff on an evening, there is a cost to me. So there comes in the barfine.

 

Sorry, but I don't get this. Where is the cost to you?

Most bars / gogos are so overstaffed that losing a "staff-member" or two in a night isn't going to make much of a difference IMO.

 

Even in places like Angelwitch, Long-Gun, Tilac etc that are probably the busiest of the gogo bars, you could get by with 2 maybe 3 bar staff and 3 or 4 dek serves. At most!

 

As for the dancers, if a bar has say, 15 girls dancing, losing 5 of them in an evening (and that's probably on a good night), is that REALLY going to make a huge difference - having 10 dancers instead of 15?

 

I wish we didn't have to do it but unless guys are prepared to pay substancially more for their beer then its here to stay.

 

Huh? When gogos are selling bottles for 110B that they are paying about 15-20B for wholesale? I understand that you have to "pay" to watch pretty girls dancing, but if I walk into a gogo outside happy hour and have 5 beers over a period of, say, 90 minutes then that's about 450-500B your making out of me. And if I order a Coke (one glass - about 200ml), that will cost me about 90B. And I am pretty sure that it comes from a 1.5 litre bottle purchased at Foodland for 17B. Plus a couple of lady drinks as well. Then they want a bar-fine.

 

And take a place like "Big Dogs" - no gogo, no nudity, no happy hour, expensive sodas if you don't want to drink during the day... and a bar fine of 600 baht.

 

Nothing personal, Torrenova, appreciate you have costs in running a business, but just my opinion.

 

Barfines are scams and just another way to seperate a punter from his money - again. I think as long as places like Soi 7 beergarden and Nana Plaza Car Park exist, more and more punters will "see the light" and stop paying bar fines.

[Old Hippie]

"...You nor anyone else would live with a girl who works for me and goes with farangs. The girls do not have boyfriends, farang or Thai - period. Have boyfriend = no job...."

 

Sounds kind of nieve if you ask me. The girls have lives you/I/we don't know about. But then I am no expert my any means. I am not against Bar fines during regular hours, just the idea that if I run into a girl off her shift, or on her day off, or meet her with out "your help" such as meeting her for the first time in a venue other than your bar, I see no need to pay you, and wouldn't. I have met mnay women this way, and have never had to pay any bar owner for it. Doubt it would be a problem.