Ex GF and ethical dilemma

[Guest]

ALL:

 

Thanks for the thoughtful replies, I hope they keep coming. I would like to reply to all the posts but there are too many.

 

I can add some facts here, this may have no bearing on anyone?s position but here they are.

 

When I took her for the HIV test she basically put herself in my hands. Her results on various tests came back fine but the HIV test result said something like ?pending lab verification.? The nurse said to call in two days. I knew what was coming but said nothing. Two days later they told her to come in to see the doc. I canceled my flight out so I could be with her when she got the bad news.

 

Back at the hospital I told her to tell the doc that it was OK to let me sit in, she did as I asked.

 

We got the story of her positive result from the doc, then I insisted that I get a test. We went down to the hospital coffee shop to wait for my results, saying nothing to each other in the elevator. We sat in the coffee shop in silence lost in our own thoughts. She looked like she just learned somebody died. I thought about the fact that this was not the only problem with this wild beautiful girl that I thought of as my girlfriend. She had other problems (non-health related) which is typical for girls from the bottom of the ladder.

 

She said, ?You want to finish with me??

I said, ?You have too many fucking problems.?

 

I got my negative result and back at the hotel room we started talking. I asked what she thought; she said with thai stoicism, ?I die now.? That?s when I gave her a brief education about hiv, with drugs you can live many years, etc. I told her that if we are strong together than we can overcome this together. It took a while but I could see the hope return in her eyes.

 

I insisted she never tell her friends about her being hiv +, if just one thai girl found out word would spread like wild fire. My assumption was that her friends would disappear if they knew. No one needed to know except her and I. She agreed (to this day she and I are the only ones aware of her status afaik).

 

I mapped out the plan as to how she would get treatment, figured out the costs and told her it was possible. She was committed to everything that we agreed on, but it was clear she would not be able to do any of this without me. A plan was anathema to her philosophy of living each day as it comes but was willing to do it because she was scared and it was what I wanted.

 

Many months later, after we broke up, I made up my mind to stop thinking about her. Thinking about her situation accomplished nothing for me, not to mention that it is possibly stupid to try to save someone who does not want it.

 

However, the thought kept eating at me that if we were still together, if I hadn?t given up on her, she would be getting treatment. With me doing nothing, her death was inevitable. Not my fault but an undeniable fact. There was/is no one else to help her.

 

My action so far has been to do nothing.

 

So I decided to post here to see if others thought I was doing the right thing. As you can see from my posts, the farang?s welfare was not my concern. As TTM pointed out, if I have an obligation to tell this guy, then I also have to tell her next BF and so on. What am I a stalker? I have confidential info that she entrusted me with, not sure I should be telling every guy she ever dates from now on.

 

That was my thinking. After reading all the strongly worded replies I will rethink my position on whether he should be told for his own sake. Hopefully guys will keep posting on that issue since my mind is not made up.

 

I notice that most posters are concerned for the farang who might get hiv and not too much said about the girl who will certainly die without treatment. This is understandable, we are farang and identify with the farang in this story and worry about him. For me, I worry about this girl. Unlike the farang, she is facing an imminent death. IMO, anyone who participated in the night life has some responsibility for a thai girl who gets hiv, even if your fault is barely a drop in the ocean.

 

One could write this girl off. She is exercising her own free will to not get treatment. I wonder if an uneducated thai girl with a miserable life as she grew up is really capable of free will. Thoughts of her inevitable death intrude into my otherwise busy days. I cannot seem to forget about her.

[Guest]

Zaad:

 

The doctor surprised me when he said i did not need a test. I may not have made it clear to him that we were together a long time. He may have assumed that I recently found her in a bar. Don't know what his reasoning was, but he clearly conveyed to me that he thought a test was unnecessary. Turned out I was negative so maybe he knew something.

[Zaad]

"...then I insisted that I get a test."

 

I'm sure this test was strongly adviced, you really don't have to convince doctors to test yourself.

I don't believe you needed to insist.

 

"I notice that most posters are concerned for the farang who might get hiv and not too much said about the girl who will certainly die without treatment. "

 

Concerned for the farang? I bet nobody knows nor cares whether her new bf is a farang, Thai, hispanic or whomever. ABSOLUTELY irrelevant.

 

I feel sorry for the girl, but I say if she wants to be so fucking heartless and selfish as to not telling others about the dangers of entering a relationship with her I would lose my respect for her and tell the guy even if it jeopardizes a relationship (which is btw incomparable to the real issue).

 

BTW, I wouldn't necessarily hunt for her new bf as pretending to be the local detective, no, I would inform him if I somehow got to know or meet him.

[Nervous_Dog]

I think Pattaya that is exactly the vigilante attitude that comes from these discussions that both Fly and I warned against. You don't know enough to be able to do that,

 

Lets say the guy has a quick temper like that wanker Jimmie Blonde who used to post here? He finds out frrom a complete stranget that he is fucking a HIV person.

 

He looses it, starts a fight, blood gets spilt MAYBE this is how HE gets infected! Maybe he's clean till now?

 

Why do you think they have trained proffessionals to council people who have a positive result rather than just giving them the result over the phone?

 

And doing this way "Oh, I'm a complete stranger" will just enrage the person even more,

 

Dog

PS - KS - I really think this is heading into a dangerous area of vigialntism that I wanred of much earlier and fly also spoke of.

[Guest]

>>I don't believe you needed to insist.<<

 

And yet I insisted.

 

>>but I say if she wants to be so fucking heartless and selfish as to not telling others about the dangers of entering a relationship with her <<

 

If you had hiv you might not think it a great idea to tell every potential GF that you were dangerous. The girl is being an asshole but for reasons other than what you point out. I also think you are slightly ignorant about hiv transmission.

[Zaad]

Zenseless,

 

"The doctor surprised me when he said i did not need a test. I may not have made it clear to him that we were together a long time. He may have assumed that I recently found her in a bar. Don't know what his reasoning was, but he clearly conveyed to me that he thought a test was unnecessary. Turned out I was negative so maybe he knew something. "

 

I will tell you why I can't believe what you said the doctor did or didn't do.

I happen to know doctors via my gf and had long talks with them regarding the HIV issue.

 

They can never know enough, even a test is not 100% reliable, you'll need multiple ones througout a year as many factors may influence the results.

They are extremely aware of the dangers, they will never make decisions based on their own assumptions, simply not allowed to, not when it comes to HIV patients.

 

If he assumes you took her out of the bar then he may also assume she won't be the last you take out, no offense. If doctors base decision on assumptions (which they don't) this assumption would be reason enough to test you.

[Guest]

I can't explain why he felt I did not need a test. He apparently is not one of the doctors you mentioned above.

 

I can say that, like you, I did not agree with his opinion.

[JJsushi]

Nervous_Dog said:

I think Pattaya that is exactly the vigilante attitude that comes from these discussions that both Fly and I warned against. You don't know enough to be able to do that,

 

Lets say the guy has a quick temper like that wanker Jimmie Blonde who used to post here? He finds out frrom a complete stranget that he is fucking a HIV person.

 

He looses it, starts a fight, blood gets spilt MAYBE this is how HE gets infected! Maybe he's clean till now?

 

Why do you think they have trained proffessionals to council people who have a positive result rather than just giving them the result over the phone?

 

And doing this way "Oh, I'm a complete stranger" will just enrage the person even more,

 

Dog

PS - KS - I really think this is heading into a dangerous area of vigialntism that I wanred of much earlier and fly also spoke of.

 

Vigilantism? Getting a tad bit extreme are we not? Informing the BF through a phone call or a letter I doubt woould qualify as extreme vigilantism.

 

Vigilance is usually associated with people taking the law into their own hands. In this case no law is being broken so I think you are going a bit overboard in your assessment or warnings.

 

The scenario is really simple. The chick knowingly has HIV and has made certain decisions regarding her life, the BF may or may not kow this, as a concerned human being privy to the situation one has the desire to warn him of the possible danger so he can make an informed decision.

 

Put it this way, If BF does not know he is HIV positive and donates blood that is not properly screened in Thailand. What if you have an medical emergency that requires donated blood and you just happen to get his HIV infected blood? I bet your ass would be concerned then.

 

Have any of you guys ever heard of the ripple effect? Do any of you understand that HIV/AIDS is currently uncurable, contagious and is considered an epidemic? Do you understand that people infect other people and tylenol will not cure it?

 

Please don't believe all that nonsense Fly is talking about it being a manageable illness. I know plenty of people that do not benefit from the drug cocktails and have a problem sucking down buckets of pills everyday. We are not talking about popping a vitamin and then everything is okay. Medicating HIV requires a lifestyle change and a disciplined regimen

[Zaad]

Nervous Dog,

 

You are assuming many things. Please don't!

We are talking about HIV here, not the flu. IN THIS CASE you need to make decisions based on facts only, not silly assumptions wether the guy might kick your ass etc. So? I say it's a risk worth taking.

 

If you don't tell because you don't care about them OK, I understand and accept that opinion, but please don't defend your point by assuming silliness.

 

Just think about it...how serious should we take any guy who sincerely would want to tell another person but fears physical punishment and resulting transmission etc? Hilarious no?

 

Zenseless,

"I also think you are slightly ignorant about hiv transmission. "

 

?????????? Are you sure these words above are meant for me?

[Nervous_Dog]

ZAAD - your being a bit infamitory sayig i don't care, how many friends have you been to the funeral of because of AIDS? - me - 3, plus my best mate since school, and two otehr good mates.

 

Sorry I your way off line saying that ok!

 

Who said telling someone who would risk physical punishment? I am talking about the BF beating the girl! Totally different.

 

These issues should be handled by proffessionals, not wanna be crusaders who think they are doing the right thing.

 

By taking the matter in your own hands you have NO IDEA how he will react to the girl in question! No idea at all! As I said before, say he gets violent, blood is spilt, up till now he is HIV free, but because he got drunk knowing he's banging a HIV girl, he goes nuts (and how many times have we read of that happening here)

 

Sorry - it's out of our responsibilty and proffesional abilty to minister the right actions.

 

I still say, work on the girl, get her to make admission, if she wants too.

 

The original poster himself said they chose not to tell others, why the change in mindset now?

 

As he himself said, is he to stalk all her future boyfriends?

 

Dog