Ex GF and ethical dilemma

[Zaad]

"Sorry - it's out of our responsibilty and proffesional abilty to minister the right actions."

 

So how could you possibly tell that by staying out of it and doing squat is the right action?

 

As for the "don't care" part. Sorry, was definitely not refering to you, I gave an example, my sincere apologies if you interpreted my post wrongly.

[Nervous_Dog]

<<"Sorry - it's out of our responsibilty and proffesional abilty to minister the right actions."

 

So how could you possibly tell that by staying out of it and doing squat is the right action?>>

 

Because I don't think telling someone about this anominously without councilling is the right way to do it. Thats why it's unprofessional! A professional way would be to have a trained councilor tell the people involved, that is how it is normally done when giving HIV results (At least in Aust). I would never presume to advice someone about this without access to all the information or facts. To do so would be playing at a proffession I am not and I don't think anyone else here is.

 

No worries about the "Don't care" part, I still thank your wife for helping us stop the rot with jingJoe's teath! ::

[pattaya127]

that wanker Jimmie Blonde

------------------------------------

he's still here. just like the aids virus, can metamorphose himself ::!

 

JJ answered for me on the vigilante. You guys keep riding on hypothesis, what if, and "do you know", etc..... I see it as a concrete case of helping someone from hurting himself.

 

I believe flyW has told us about his many benevolent actions along good samaritan thais. I am sure that involved helping a lot of strangers, who were in danger of losing their lives and he did not care if that happened because they were on drugs, drunk or plain thoughtless and should have known. The only difference is that this guy we talk about (the girl is HIV+, Z tried to help INSISTENTLY) may not be struck yet.

[Guest]

In taking this case from what we know, I feel guy should be told, in one way, or another. This is largely due to the fact that girl has stated that she does not want bf to know of her being infected with the AIDS virus. It?s clear she does not want to take responsibility to take care of herself, nor feels the responsibility to take care of her bf. Condoms (even if using) are nowhere near 100% safe. She is risking his life, every time they are together. It is obvious she does not want him to know, and so is deceiving him in the highest regard.

 

What if this guy was your best friend? Would some of you still feel you would be ?butting in??.

 

Sometimes shit just falls in our lap. We don?t go looking for it, or desire it. When I first read this, I thought of a girl getting raped at knife-point, down a dark soi. I then also, immediately remembered the Kitty Genovese case in NYC. If I come upon a girl getting raped in an alley, and it becomes my civic responsibility to take action, even if only calling police. I didn?t ask to be put in that position, but it instantly makes me have a responsibility, like it, or not. Zen is in that position now. He didn?t ask for this, but he is the only one who knows this girl is HIV, and she is not informing her bf, of such. It is akin to standing by, watching her sprinkle arsenic in his food every night, unbeknownst to him, because she thinks it will make him harder during sex, all the while knowing it will also eventually kill him.

 

Who on this board would *not* like to know their partner is HIV pos, while said partner is telling you otherwise? I don?t know about Thailand, but in the US it is illegal to have sex with someone while being infected, and not to inform partner of that fact. Original charge was ?attempted murder?. I do not know if has been amended since then.

 

Does Zen then have a responsibility to follow her around to inform every guy she is with? No, IMO. It?s like a doctor who comes upon an accident. He is *required* to give assistance. The situation fell in his lap, and he has taken an oath to not shun his responsibility of helping his fellow man/woman. It does not mean he must jump on a plane every time he hears of another accident somewhere else.

 

How is Zen going to feel a year later, if the guy turns up positive, because g/f did not want him to know? Zen is the only other person on earth who can enlighten this guy that someone is putting his life in very serious danger. Like it, or not, he has been armed with information concerning someone else?s possible demise/death, brought about by lie?s and deceit, that only he is aware of, and no one else.

 

That would certainly leave me with no choice in the matter. At the very least, I would get into contact with guy?s friends, and let them be the bearer of the bad news. At least you did something, other than watching a train wreck happen, while just resting your hand on the track switching lever.

 

Would I run around the bars following her around, warning every guy she talked to? No. You do enter a certain risk in being with prostitutes. But we do not even know if he is aware of her past. Could very well be she has sworn she has been tested, and probably has the clinic receipts to show him (they will not show the actual test results). In this particular case, it?s not right to just sit back, and say it?s ?not my problem?. Nor do I think Zen would be personally responsible for this girl, for the rest of his life, by taking action. She has made it clear she has no desire to take care of herself. Only she can be responsible for that. She has that right. She has also made it clear, through her actions, that she has no problems in also taking others with her. That is a right, I do not believe her to have, or to ever possess.

 

HT

[Zorro]

zenseless said

So I decided to post here to see if others thought I was doing the right thing. As you can see from my posts, the farang?s welfare was not my concern. As TTM pointed out, if I have an obligation to tell this guy, then I also have to tell her next BF and so on. What am I a stalker? I have confidential info that she entrusted me with, not sure I should be telling every guy she ever dates from now on.

 

I don't think anybody is saying that you should tell the whole world she has AIDS.

However you do know that she has a current boyfriend who could be anonymously informed of her HIV status.

I think this is the very least you could do.

How would you feel in the new boyfriends position if someone could have informed you of a life threatening disease but didn't bother because of some supposed confidence with a former lover.

IMHO she has abrogated her right to confidentiality by having sexual relations and not disclosing her HIV status.

This is a criminal offence in many countries.

I cannot believe some of the pathetic arguments that some here are spouting.

If you have the opportunity to make a big difference in someones life with what i can see very little if no repercussions then what is the problem?

[Zaad]

Nervous Dog,

 

"No worries about the "Don't care" part, I still thank your wife for helping us stop the rot with jingJoe's teath! "

 

Her advice came on time? Never knew that, I'll tell her

 

Good post HT.

And btw, I doubt the love she expresses towards her bf is anything to take serious. You don't put people who you care about in such dangers. The girl is being selfish IMHO.

It seems her ordeal (poor her) is seriously affecting her decisions.

The love for her new bf is anything but real.

 

Zenseless,

You said this happened long ago, but do you by any chance happen to remember the doctor's name and hospital? I would appreciate this info by PM ONLY please

 

It's very wise that you insisted as you claim, but many others may not have done the same in similar situations. That would TRULY be sad, especially since a doctor is one of the few people who interacts with HIV patients and has the knowledge and responsibility to educate them about it.

[AF16]

I notice that most posters are concerned for the farang who might get hiv and not too much said about the girl who will certainly die without treatment. This is understandable, we are farang and identify with the farang in this story and worry about him. For me, I worry about this girl. Unlike the farang, she is facing an imminent death. IMO, anyone who participated in the night life has some responsibility for a thai girl who gets hiv, even if your fault is barely a drop in the ocean.

 

One could write this girl off. She is exercising her own free will to not get treatment. I wonder if an uneducated thai girl with a miserable life as she grew up is really capable of free will. Thoughts of her inevitable death intrude into my otherwise busy days. I cannot seem to forget about her.

 

As I said before everyone is responsible for their actions. I commend you for sticking with this girl, for you helping her even when she did not seem capable or willing to do so you?re self. It shows that you took responsibility, even if it affected you negatively in some way. I personally subscribe to the theory that you will gain more as a human being than you loose.

 

However there is a time where your responsibility ends and hers starts. It?s not in my view giving up on her when she needs help, but when she in term let her selfishness affect others. Then the consequences for her could be to loose you as a moral support. You have been there for her when she needed help, you should not be there for her when she is risking the life of someone else. She needs to face up to what she are doing.

 

I have been in a, very different, situation where I too supported someone no one else seemed to think deserved anything, and I too wake up sometime with a lump in my stomach thinking of how she is doing, so I somewhat know where you are coming from. I admire you for some of the things you have done, but now the question have changed from you being there for her, to she having to choose her actions more carefully.

 

My English is failing me here, but I hope you can make some sense of it.

[thalenoi]

Hi Zenseless,

 

Not reading all of this tread but my reaction to you so far:

I went through a similar incident, (see health, ever had HIV test - my reply to Tamachat dated 17/09 -don't want to repeat here)

 

We did have blood tests together, mine was neg, hers was "she has syphillis stage 2 and the lab is checking for HIV"

It was clear to me they were performing additional HIV tests.

 

She ran away from treatement and from me.

She had a relationship with a german truck driver after we split. I met them twice and asked myself the same question, should I inform the guy?

I did not. She should not have unprotected sex and she should have told the guy. I asked her if she did though, answer: NO. The guy should also be responsible for what he was doing (married and 2 children) I had enough problems myself dealing with all that happened before.

I do not have regrets nor feelings of guilt.

 

Cheers,

 

Was cut of internet.

wish to add that we were directed to local big hospital for "follow up" this was 1989. No one wanted to take responsebility there until the head of department took over.

He immediately ordered new bloodstest from both of us.

For the time she stayed with me we had numerous checks (every month) no meds were given, I guess because no AIDS symptoms surfaced and only AZT available.

After staying one year with me she went home to live with her parents because she found she was a burden to me, met that german truck driver and disapeared one day. Once she left me I don't thimk she would have taken any meds. Seems similar to your gf. Hide your head in the sand....

 

[Pharcyde]

I still see it as a plight to inform anyone in our periphery about such serious thing as living with the risk of catching a deadly disease.

And yes, there is no doubt about the consequenses of AIDS in a deeloping country. I dont have the numbers, some of you might have them, but I still very much doubt that near all of the infected get the proper treatment. It is a sad and hard way to watch people wither and die of AIDS, believe me.

 

As for the girl, I cant feel too much compassion with her. She is the one in first place to be so selfish as not to inform her partner about her serious conditon.

 

If you were walking right out in front of an oncoming bus, I would warn you.

Wouldnt you warn me?

 

Pc

[Guest]

it is interesting to note the division between people who have been in realistic situations similar to the one of zenseless, such as you, me and nervous dog, have decided not to tell, advocate not telling, and people who appearantly have not faced such a decision in reality advocate telling. interesting indeed.