AF16 Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 flyonzewall said:it is interesting to note the division between people who have been in realistic situations similar to the one of zenseless, such as you, me and nervous dog, have decided not to tell, advocate not telling, and people who appearantly have not faced such a decision in reality advocate telling. interesting indeed. Doing the 'right' thing is often difficult and that's why we got the term double standard. We advocate something diffrent than what we do our self. Still there some that do what they preach, even if it affect them negatively, and it's commendable in my view. As I have said I'm not sure what I would have done if I was in the same situation, but I know from my own values what I view as the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 >>>>One could write this girl off. She is exercising her own free will to not get treatment. I wonder if an uneducated thai girl with a miserable life as she grew up is really capable of free will. Thoughts of her inevitable death intrude into my otherwise busy days. I cannot seem to forget about her. <<<< yes, i think that an uneducated girl has the right to decide if she wants to take medication or not. if you look for example at the advisory sheets given to newly infected all over the country here, you will read one passage about the decision to take antiretrovirals. it says that taken antiretrovirals is a serious decision which should not be taken lightly as it will mean that serious changes in ones life have to be made. before such a decision the patient is advised to confer with a doctor before in depth. there are many infected who decide not to take antiretrovirals for numerous reasons. well, if you cannot forget about her, than i would advise you to try to get into contact with her, try to reconsider her decisions about telling, about taking medication, about maybe talking with better doctors (in the last two years the situation of AIDS counselling and care has improved considerably, especially upcountry). here in bangkok you could go with her for example to the MSF belgium office, which does have trained nurses who give excellent counselling. but i still would say that the final decision on telling and taking medication is only hers alone. and maybe, if it is so serious with your feelings, maybe you should consider to speak with professional people in AIDS care, and not just get your opinions from an internet board from people you don't know, can't verify, and to a large part have no professional or personal experience with a situation you are facing right now, a situation you appear to have obvious difficulties to handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 >>>>As I have said I'm not sure what I would have done if I was in the same situation, but I know from my own values what I view as the right thing to do. <<<< a systhem of values generally always changes/adapts over one's life, the more situations one encounters, the more practical experience one gets, the more a valuesysthem gets adapted to reality. we ARE still human, after all. many things that might appear to be "the right thing" from afar, might get a bit more complex the closer one gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF16 Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 flyonzewall said:>>>>As I have said I'm not sure what I would have done if I was in the same situation, but I know from my own values what I view as the right thing to do. <<<< a systhem of values generally always changes/adapts over one's life, the more situations one encounters, the more practical experience one gets, the more a valuesysthem gets adapted to reality. we ARE still human, after all. many things that might appear to be "the right thing" from afar, might get a bit more complex the closer one gets. Mostly agree with that. However getting to close might also cloud ones judgment, so it's not like being close equals being 'right'. I don't belive in right and wrong as such, so I use the term 'right', as to what I think one should do according to my chosen value system and why. Don't mean much to anyone else but me, but I can share my valuesystem and the reader can do with it what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 As yo know I am running a poll on this, of the 140 odd people who went there, only 20+ voted, however the results are interesting to say the least. About 80% would tell, 20% would not, however only 1/2 would get a test done! No to me that just does not make sence! Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 yeah, no opposition to what you posted. i am convinced though that the original poster with the mess should base his decision not by what i, or anyone else, said on an internet board, but by professionals who deal with such issues professionally. this is an issue not to be taken lightly, and inexperience can, under circumstances have serious consequences. has anybody for example ever thought that "telling" might break up the relationship, and can bring the girl to commit suicide? that is not far from reality at all, especially considering what the original poster said about the mental condition of the girl. how could our advocates for telling live with such a consequence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Fly - I said I think the same thing to a repost to KS very early on. This has happened many times, which is why trainedd professionals break the news to people, not us amateurs. DOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF16 Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 The problem with consequence based ethics, which I personally subscribe to, is that you don?t know the consequences of your actions at the time you do something. Most likely not after either. That?s why most consequence based ethics still turn to ruled based ethics, the alternative is nihilist indifference. That?s a consequence as well. No action is the same as action. In the end though, saying something might save a life right here and now. That we do know. Perhaps telling the man might lead this girl to have to seek the company of many other men and by that affected many more people, but still I don?t see it as a valid reason for not doing something now. The first choice should at any rate be to reason with the girl, but if that fails ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Hi, "of the 140 odd people who went there, only 20+ voted" No, the thread has been viewed 140 odd times, does not mean 140 *different* people. I for instance have probably checked it 3-4 times already, but only voted once of course. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Fly said has anybody for example ever thought that "telling" might break up the relationship, and can bring the girl to commit suicide? that is not far from reality at all, especially considering what the original poster said about the mental condition of the girl. how could our advocates for telling live with such a consequence? I could live with this quite easily considering that she places little value on her life and the lives of people around her. One has to look at this situation from the perspective of the whole society not just the individual. The consequences of not telling the new boyfriend far outweigh any other likely consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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