Working without a work permit

[Guest]

First of all I would like to clarify that I post here on a semi-regular basis. I just made up this handle as my story shows that you surely can not be to careful these days.

 

I have for several years been working from my home-office doing work for ABC Company (fictional name). As the location of my office does not matter, I have for the greater part of the last three years been working from a condo I bought in Bangkok. Last year an expatriate Thai convinced ABC that he could generate business in Thailand, and got green light for pursuing such deals for a period of 6 months.

 

3 months after he started, ABC almost went belly up. Half of the staff was laid off, and this guy's payment stopped. Not surprisingly really, as he had not been able to generate a single promising lead. Anyway, like me, he never had a written contract. Now he feels cheated and wants revenge.

 

As he has no means of hurting ABC, he now goes after me. He informed me in a very bitter e-mail that he will report me to Thai authorities for working illegally and for evading paying Thai tax. I never had much to do with him. Assisted him on some occasions, had some beers or a run in Lumpini Park from time to time, but we did not work together. I just sit in my room, writing, he were out trying to sell. We never ever had any arguments, and now this... I have not even ever been an employee of ABC.

 

As I do not get any money sourced in Thailand, and I am definitely not stealing jobs from any Thais I guess this case is not clear cut. In worst case, what can happen? Can they confiscate funds I have here (money, condo)? Can they deport me? I think normally I should not worry too much, but this guy is really well connected.

 

Thanks!

[whosyourdaddy]

They could back tax you if they could prove you were working without declaring taxes. I presume if you did not have a workpermit that you did not pay taxes. I knew of a person who got nailed for not paying taxes. No deportation for him/her but (s)he had to pay a shit load of taxes. But deportation was a possibility for him/her. I guess it would depend what visa you have.

 

I would immediately close the bank account and transfer ALL money to a new bank. They have the power to go into the account and take money back without your consent (happened to a workmate when they overpaid him)

 

I would also talk to the guy and try and work it out. I would presume that the guy wants blackmail money. Have heard of this a few times. (200,000- 340,000B range) They would have to prove that money came from the ABC company to you for services rendered.

[..]

Collateral said:As I do not get any money sourced in Thailand, and I am definitely not stealing jobs from any Thais I guess this case is not clear cut

Per my mate who is a Major in the police: "if one does not source money in Thailand (e.g., a retiree on a pension sent from his home country), then a work permit is not needed and no taxes are owed. However, you must have proper visas to live in LoS." EDIT: we were only discussing money, not actually working and seeing customers and all that, i.e., actual employment. Of course even volunteers are *supposed* to have a work permit.

 

Granted, Khun Major does not represent the Labor Ministry, but *is* a very bright guy up on most any law and has never given me a wrong answer. Still, YMMV.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Regards,

SD

[torrenova]

You don't say what visa you have but for the moment I'll assume that it is in order to remain, but not to work.

 

If you were working for ABC but not receiving funds "sourced in Thailand", then I presume that payment for your services was made to your bank account outside Thailand from a bank outside of Thailand or from ABC's main office outside of Thailand ?

 

I also assume that you are still employed by ABC Co. although you say you are not an employee. Presumably you are still receiving payment ?

 

Not enough pieces of the jigsaw here I think.

 

So you're a writer, without a contract, who submits his work to ABC and receives payment. If payment is delivered outside LOS, then presumably you have some record of ATM withdrawls or bank transfers etc.

 

You must have a Thai bank account as you state that you have bought a condo and as such, the funds for that purchase must have originated outside Thailand.

 

As you have been here so long, it might be hard to explain what you have been doing and how you financed yourself. Your still working for ABC is the only angle i can see they could get you on. Cannot you make that official ? and get a work permit ?

[Guest]

Too many falangs work without permit and then get caught. Generally they get caught because somebody they knew turned them in. This scenario is played out in just about every country. Are you in trouble? Maybe. Try your best to straighten the mess up.

[Guest]

It's not that many pieces in the jig-saw, but I will try to make it clear.

- Have a one year Visa B.

- Do my stuff 100% at home. Have no contact with any customers

- Send my writing over to ABC over internet together with invoice

- They pay to my personal Thai bank acount

- I stay about 7-9 months in Thailand per year

- I am not an employe of ABC. Working strictly freelance.

- ABC have no business in Thailand

 

That's it. Any conclusion you can draw from that?

 

Thanks for the help to everybody who have replied!

[torrenova]

So your visa is non immigrant 'B' or work visa.

 

You do generate money from employment, albeit freelance, in Thailand, paid into a Thai bank account.

 

I think you need a work permit.

 

If your money was paid into an account outside of Thailand then you may be able to argue that you earn the income when not in Thailand. Of course, it could theoretically be a pension or other stipend not connected with work.

 

I suggest that you go legit. If not, clear out your Thai bank account and have any further funds deposited into an account outside Thailand.

 

Consider changing jobs to one with a work permit.

 

Perhaps take some time off. You say that you are in LOS only for 2/3rds of the year.

[..]

Ya, I agree with Torrenova. You write in Thailand, therefore you do generate your income in Thailand. Still grey, but leaning more towards black than is safe.

 

My discussion with Khun Major revolved about a fellow who does consulting. He had no customers in LoS, just regionally. He did no sales, but had reps in other countries do this. Money was paid into a EU bank. Basically he lived in LoS, but worked in other countries (like offshore oil workers do). This seemed to be OK (as not sourcing money in LoS) per Khun Major.

 

Cheers,

SD

[gummigut]

Very least, change bank accounts, especially if this former employee knows what bank you use.

 

If you can, setup an offshore bank account for ABC to remit funds. If you can do this, I'd probably forego the workpermit as none of your work entails contact with anybody in country.

 

Otherwise go legit.

 

I think in the long run, going legit is probably the best thing, and it also opens up the opportunity of doing things locally (unless ABC already takes up 100% of your time).

 

<<burp>>

[lembeh]

 

>if one does not source money in Thailand (e.g., a retiree on a pension sent from his home country), then a work permit is not needed and no taxes are owed.

 

To be honest, I am not sure that is (completely) correct. Even if one is doing voluntary, unpaid "work" in Thailand, one still (theoretically) needs a work permit.

-j-