khunsanuk Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Hi, Okay, P127 and Fly, I think both of you need to take a deep breath and relax a bit. Let's try to keep this civil, okay. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Nervous_Dog said:As I see it, any governemnt that has a lot of deaths will get MORE aid from abroad, thereby helping them! I mean, the money is going to go into government coffers, not the people that need it, but I am at a loss why they would lie? Thaksin announced publicly he does not want any money at all for this. He just wants foreign expert assistance such as for forensics. This decline is similar to Thaksin paying off the 1997 economic collapse debts ahead of schedule and refusing US foreign aid. I think the reasons for such decisions is with aid comes influence and Thaksin likes autonomy and not having to repay favors and other conditions aid comes with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Neo, This same thought crossed my mind about this. TS doesn't want any monies given that will make him and the government seem beholden to others. Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 and talk about flaming!!!) -------------------------- yeah, well, that was me flaming, you did not get that..... You confuse my point, anyway. I read this thread and it's been going on for pages, without one post going into how things could be done better the next time. Sorry, for me it's just rhetoric and has nothing to do with who was there, who is not. And especially what can still be done NOW! And this thing about depending on the thai govnmt. Pure rhetoric again. You chose to live there, best you can do is to build a network of people, friends and connections to help you in times of crisis. FlyW knows that, I know it, and you know it too. Do you really think the thai govnmt is going to shape up to address your insecurities about your life in Thailand, in any event? why all of those experts who were THERE are so wrong. -------------------- never said they were. for the last time: you guys are living in a 3rd world country, with a 3rd world type of governance. You think that raising hell, and re-hiring a few experts who were right will improve things for the next disaster aftermath? Good, keep us update on that..... say that we should stop criticizing this government who has consistantly put us in danger. Well, forget it, you will not shut me up -------------------------- Again, i am not shutting anyone up. Just disappointed it's down to Thaksin this or Thaksin that AD NAUSEAM and saying it. I'd rather think it's you who does not want to hear any discordance to your farang rant. criticize all you want. as i said, nothing new there. It's the farang's national sport in Thailand. What matters most to me is what you guys in a poistion of doing something, are doing now, to help the unfortunate victims. If you are doing so, you know this matters a 1000 times more than a criticizing post on NanaP.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 it is a situation that continues to give me very bad nightmares. do you fucking get it?! --------------------------------- FlyW, many countries, without a Thaksin, have been struck, with govnmts totally under-performing. There too , they have a lot of nightmares. You would have had them in Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Tamil nadu, Myanmar for witnessing the horror. I understand your anger, don't deny it's justified but i doubt that the nightmares have to do something with it. It just bothers me that it's put in one bag, as if Thaksin is giving you nightmares. This carelessness you deplore would have been the same with previous PMs, or in other countries affected by the tsunami. If you want to convey the horror you felt, tell us less succintly than you did already what you did during these 3 days, tell us more about the pain that gives you nightmares than the anger about a PM and govnmt you have never trusted to do any good. Also, as an eyewitnsss, did you take shots that could relate to us the disaster in Phangna? Share with us that which we certainly know, but were not there to witness, was something completely different from previous events you have been thru in Thailand, especially if you find it unreported. maybe that's me, but your comments on Thaksin did actually put me off, as i saw them as re-hashing your political snips for the last 3 years, in that, they simply did exactly the contrary of bringing your pain to me, and making me understand what you went thru. if you think it is all best expressed by sticking to Thaksin' spins and failures, it's your right and I will refrain from further comments about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 point is that the government has underestimated the extend of the catastrophy for several crucial days. therefore not enough recources have been made available to pang nga province, manpower and equipment that was desperately needed. as a result the identification of bodies are now that difficult. right now the question is beyond letting heads roll, the question is for relatives of the deceased to get a full explanation why things were as they were. people need to come to a closure, and that does not work by whitewashing and denials. the next question is the issue that mistakes and failures have to be analysed in full so that in a future event those mistakes are not repeated. it is not about politicising an issue so that certain vested interests can appear as if they were dealing with the situation perfectly, surpressing anything that might look different. that though is happening now, unfortunately heads are rolling right now, by the removal of officials who blame can be attached to, but who very possibly were under strict orders to deal with the issue as they did. why do you need to know how it looked like, aren't there not enough photos easily available? shall i describe it to you? a blackened corpse, bloated, liquids seeping out, orifices bubbling, making strange noises from the gasses. a stench that makes you gag, an army of maggots in around the swollen tongue and eyeballs pressed out of the skull. scrotum enlarged to perverted proportions. children, adults, westerners, thais. now, multiply that image by a thousand, and that is exactly the picture that was presented to me under my bedroom. and the same image was repeated endlessly over a vast territory, stretching 3 to 4 kilometers from the beach inland. and only a few hundred rescue volonteers, and locals to clean the mess up with their bare hands, even surgical gloves and face masks partially in short supply. do i need to tell more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun_Kong Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 To nobody in particular... This link to a story in today's BKK Post has some interesting statistical and other data. I'm sure that some tourists would be interested in this: " Mr Jakrapob said that in order to facilitate tourist arrivals, it was agreed that the visa fee of 1,900 baht each would be waived for tourists seeking to extend their stay in Thailand." Follow the link above if you want to see the data tables. ******************************************* Weather bureau chief moved Suparerk: Transfer not punishment Agency probed for not giving tsunami alert PREEYANAT PHANAYANGGOOR CHATRUDEE THEPARAT Cabinet yesterday ordered the temporary transfer of Meteorological Department chief Suparerk Tansriratanawong for failing to issue a tsunami alert on Dec 26. Mr Suparerk was to be shifted to assist work at the Prime Minister's Office for six months pending an investigation. Government spokeman Jakrapob Penkair said Mr Suparerk would temporarily help a panel, headed by Smith Tumsaroch, assistant to the minister at the PM's Office and former meteorological chief, set up a tsunami early-warning system. Mr Jakrapob said the transfer was not a punishment for the department's failure to warn of coming tidal waves, and Mr Suparerk may resume his position after six months if that is deemed appropriate. No acting chief of the department has been appointed. Mr Jakrapob said a disciplinary committee would not be set up to investigate Mr Suparek. However, a nine-member panel would be appointed to investigate and assess the overall performance of the Meteorological Department. Mr Smith would likely head the panel and suggest solutions for the future. Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said Mr Suparerk was transferred to facilitate an inquiry into why his department failed to issue a tsunami alert which could have saved thousands of lives. ``When a quake measuring at 8.9-9.0 on the Richter scale struck Sumatra, it was widely known a tsunami could happen. But why weren't there any alerts? I really want to know the truth,'' Mr Thaksin said. Cabinet yesterday also approved a package of assistance to the tsunami victims in the country, including 1,000 temporary housing units, one billion baht in aid for affected fishermen, and a 171-million-baht project to help workers who lost their jobs as a result of the disaster. Sora-at Klinprathum, minister of social development and human security, said his ministry would be the centre to coordinate the various state agencies offering to help build temporary shelters for people made homeless by the tidal waves in Krabi, Phangnga, Phuket and Ranong provinces. To date around 200 temporary houses have already been built. The army would be responsible for the construction of another 500 units. All of the 1,000 units would be finished within 10 days, Mr Sora-at said. Homeless people in some areas were being sheltered in tents. A committee would be set up to deal with the problem of finding new homes for them, he said. In principle, they could get a new house built for them at less than 100,000 baht a unit or choose to receive financial assistance to pay for a new house of their own choosing. He said the prime minister wanted all assistance to reach the tsunami victims within two weeks from now. The ministry also planned to help around 270 children who lost one or both of their parents. The ministry would look after them until their relatives came forward to pick them up. It would also give some financial assistance to the relatives who decided to take care of the children. 050105_new03 (11K) Meanwhile, Deputy Agriculture Minister Newin Chidchob said the total loss suffered by fishermen was estimated at one billion baht. Around 3,400 fishing boats had been damaged. The Fisheries Department and the navy would help salvage them. The ministry would pay around 95,000 baht each for damaged big boats and 30,000 baht for small ones. Owners of fish raised in floating baskets would receive 12,000 baht in compensation per basket. The Labour Ministry also asked for 171 million baht to help local tsunami victims. The Social Security Office agreed to provide 120 million baht from the Social Security Fund to assist 39 hospitals in the six affected provinces. Mr Jakrapob said that in order to facilitate tourist arrivals, it was agreed that the visa fee of 1,900 baht each would be waived for tourists seeking to extend their stay in Thailand. Rehabilitation projects would first be implemented in locations which sustained less damage such as the Patong and Kamala beaches, he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khwaimaisabai Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 To all, Just my couple of comments. Nobody is to blame for the tsunami - it is a natural disaster. It is very rare in this region so for that reason nobody had used scarce resources to set up a warning system. Even with a warning system, casualties would have been very high because of the small amount of time available. Response to the aftermath may have been less than perfect, but when did Thailand last have such an incident? Hardly surprising that no contingency plans were in place and without plans of action, nothing can be done. It is very easy to criticise after the event in any situation. Right now what is needed is help for the survivors. Very sad that so many victims will always be unidentified. Relatives will have to deal with this in their own way. Just my two cents worth. Khwai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Hardly surprising that no contingency plans were in place and without plans of action, nothing can be done. Actually, the article above your post says thousands would have been saved if information known at the time was properly channeled into the existing warning systems. So there were plans and processes in place, but it failed resulting in not even one life saved. I think it's a positive step to understand how that happened which is exactly what they are doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khwaimaisabai Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Hi neo, Khun Taksin is quoted as saying that. Personally, I don't believe it. I think he is underestimating the inertia in a system that is inevitable when dealing with something unexpected. I have seen a figure quoted of 75 minutes from earthquake to tsunami hitting Phuket. Just think about it. That is not a long time to get a message through in any circumstances. When it is something totally unexpected, the first thing anybody (everybody) in the chain would want to do is check whether it is true or not. Also, this happened on a weekend when many officials who normally authorise things were not on duty. The whole thing is a tragic accident and I can fully sympathise with people like flyz who have seen the horror of it and want to find someone to blame. Khwai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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