DISASTER AVOIDABLE

[..]

soongmak said:Isn't the right one taken on 3 Jan, and the left one Dec. 29th?

Nope. Left one is Jan 2003 before tsunami, note the lovely beaches, greenery and buildings. Right one is after tsunami, taken 29 Dec 2004. Note the washed up mud and sand and the lack of identifiable buildings and beach. Larger pix (easier to see) are available on the Satellite Imaging site.

 

Cheers,

SD

[pattaya127]

and i can tell you that what is said is not exactly flattering.

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what's new about that? Hearing you, it's always been the case, not just this week.

 

And we said the same things about US administration about 9/11, french people had little kind to say about the slow reaction to so many dying of the heat wave 2 years ago. people see things, go thru a lot and hear their govnmt or PM talk from afar about it, not relating to the urgency of the situation. I can sympathize with that, but nothing earth-shattering about one's realization govnmts come up short to what is expected from them.

 

as you know about (thai) politics, you also know very well they will fly thru all kind of shameface and embarassment they will face. It's money and vested interests that brought them in power, not competence. Short of insulting the dead and sufferings, and laughing at the maps of disaster area, they will talk themselves out of it, as they have always done. I hope i am wrong, but will not bet a baht on it.

[Guest]

>>>what's new about that? Hearing you, it's always been the case, not just this week.<<<

 

 

i think you don't really understand what i am saying. maybe it is a bit difficult to imagine the apocalyptic nightmare people have found themselves in. mountains and mountains of rotting, bloated corpses wherever you looked.

that was not our usual political chitchat while having a beer in bangers. that was severely traumatised people in the worst imaginable situation that were left completely alone by their government during the most crucial days.

that is going to stay.

no, that was not a "always been the case" scenario, so far from it that you have not even the slightest idea to start comprehending.

[Zorro]

So you are saying that we shouldn't complain and that we shouldn't be surprised or outraged at anything that happens.

Further that we shouldn't bother trying to do anything about it because it is a waste of time.

 

What sort of attitude is that?

 

Fatalism is not a real healthy way to live ones life.

 

There is always something that can and should be done.

 

It is up to the people to put pressure on governments to make changes.

 

If everyone took a mai pen rai attitude we would not have made the advancements in our political systems that we have. There will always be problems and cover ups and denials but if we sit idly by we will never get the small wins and advancements that have helped our systems evolve to what they are today which is quite an improvement on what we had in the past.

[Guest]

Zorro said

"Fatalism is not a real healthy way to live ones life."

 

 

I agree.

 

This did not have to end as a tragedy but it became a tragedy when it became a laughing matter when one person claimed a tsumani might occur. It went beyond laughing - he lost his job.

 

When signs started to look like something might be in the mist, nobody paid attention. When the one who got laughed at saw the signs for potential disaster - nobody would answer the phones.

 

Fortunately, that man has been rehired and will now lead the way so this will never happen, unfortunately it does not bring back the dead nor does it seem to minimize the laughing boys.

[pattaya127]

so far from it that you have not even the slightest idea to start comprehending.

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(MOD ALERT: FLAMING)

 

Fuck your endless patronizing of others, FlyW. The chitchat you/we have here is totally unrelated to the suffering of people down there. And coming from you, yes, it's the same as always, you have cried wolf so many times about anything, in this forum, that you saying it is barely News. No one who cares about his fellow human beings has escaped the pain and suffering from this catastrophe. Blabbering for 3 pages about Thakisn this or that, fine, but please, don't tell me this is what shows where is your compassion.

that was my point.

 

PS: it's very nice you helped there, but don't start using the 3 days you went there to patronize us AGAIN. That's vanity, not compassion. I know 2 other much less frequent members who are either there or soon, they have not posted they're going to play compassionate saviours. You are a great guy, Flyw, but a little modesty can serve you well here. You have not been the sole relayer of thai peoples emotions, reactions and suffering, far from it.

[pattaya127]

So you are saying that we shouldn't complain and that we shouldn't be surprised or outraged at anything that happens.

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No, I am saying it's not the time to politicize the tsunami, especiallly within farangs, who will never make a notch in thai politics. A lot can always be done, learning from past mistakes (though i don't think it's just mistakes, it's inherent to the view many 3rd world gvnmts view the people they govern) but how come what could be a constructive thread has to be paralleled with constant blames. IMO, 2 different threads/subjects.

[itsmedave]

Pattaya 127 said... <<Fuck your endless patronizing of others, FlyW. The chitchat you/we have here is totally unrelated to the suffering of people down there. And coming from you, yes, it's the same as always, you have cried wolf so many times about anything, in this forum>>>

 

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. (and talk about flaming!!!) Fly was THERE, other experts opinions have been posted supporting his contentions from people who were THERE...were YOU there? It seems to me that it is you who just keep shoveling out the same BS regardless of the evidence to the contrary.

 

Instead of just poo-pooing this whole life taking negligence from the government, why don't you go through each factual point and explain why all of those experts who were THERE are so wrong. Thaksin says there are only 400 dead when he KNEW there were thousands, causing teams of aid workers to decide to stay home because they felt they weren't needed since the tragedy wasn't that bad...costing untold life and suffering. (and showing thoise who believe that we here shouldn't stress about it because nobody listens or believes him anyway, that the reverse is true) According to you, this is not something of enough importance to discuss here. WHY???

 

The gov't KNEW 90 minutes before the wave came that it was on its way and did nothing, the result being thousands of deaths (which the gov't is STILL underplaying) from Thai's and foreigners alike...but this is unimportant to you...WHY???

 

The gov't owns all the television stations, meaning the vast majority of Thai people are getting only Thaksin's version of events, causing a huge rise in his popularity (according to the Post and Nation yesterday) but you say we shouldn't complain about the governement here...because we're not Thai. But we who live here, ARE under this government and our safety or lack of it IS directly linked with this government's policies. (and those people who lost homes and businesses will not be receiving aid money, because Thaksin says we don't need it)

 

Yet you, (from a safe distance) say that you know more about what happened than those who were there, and say that we should stop criticizing this government who has consistantly put us in danger. Well, forget it, you will not shut me up, and my guess is you're not going to shut Fly up either.

[Nervous_Dog]

Can someone explain the benifit to the government for saying less people died than did die?

 

As I see it, any governemnt that has a lot of deaths will get MORE aid from abroad, thereby helping them!

 

I mean, the money is going to go into government coffers, not the people that need it, but I am at a loss why they would lie?

 

Because of a lack of warning, they ALL had lack of warning (Regional Govermnets)

 

DOG

[Guest]

you are just so out of order...

 

i hate to repeat myself, and i have put myself already in more than enough personal risk by speaking out what is blanked out now by certain vested interests, and still do so in order to do justice to the spirits of the deceased that haunt me in my dreams. and to be able to be a part of finding out what actually happened so that an open and proper investigation can be done and in future those mistakes made here are not repeated.

i could not care less if you call that "patronising". fact is, that i was down there, a witness and a participant, and due to some strange circumstances there are not that many with a voice to speak.

 

so, step back for a sec, and consider your attitude here a bit. this is not a usual situation. it may be for you, but it is not for me. for me it is a situation that continues to give me very bad nightmares.

 

do you fucking get it?!

 

i was down there, i have seen what has not been shown by the news. since i have been back i have done nothing else than explaining this to people all over the world, to help bringing things to a closure.

and when i was not busy doing this i have been sitting and searching all over the net to somehow find out the timelines of responses, national and international, fitting this in with my own experiences. and phoning with my friends who were still down there pulling putrefied corpses.

 

so, if you see this thread here just as an opportunity to start a little argument then you are in the wrong place. i cannot waste the little energies i have left with childishly debating points with someone who has not been there during the three days that are cloaked in mystery. we can do that in a few weeks time, but not now.

 

i hope i have made myself clear enough now. if i am drawn into some debate by you here now, that is gonna be the last post you will see me making here on the board. the issue is far too serious to play high school debating cub.