Any comebacks for stupidity?

[iagra]

This is my first post, so please bear with a little background. I have visited LOS 5 times since 1994, most recently flying home on July 30, after a 4-week stay. While I enjoy the bar and entertainment scene, and appreciate it as one part of the all-you-can-eat buffet lunch that is Thailand, I have only ever bar-fined a girl 4 on four occasions, largely on the premise of “When in Rome…” and with varying degrees of satisfaction. (Though if anyone out there knows what became of the cutie who did the string of plastic flowers show at Pussy Galore circa Sept/Oct 98 I’d love to know.)

Anyway, on July 29, having started drinking earlier than usual thanks to the Man U game, I decided to spend my last evening saying goodbye to NEP. Round about midnight, disappointed that the exuberant drum, tambourine, call and response music of the previous evening in the beer bar outside Playskool was tonight not in evidence (what is that stuff?), I made my way upstairs.

At this point I allowed myself to be hustled into the (very small) 1st floor bar just to the right at the top of the escalator. Going with the flow, I had a couple of beers and bought a couple of drinks for an OK girl. To cut a long story short, I soon found myself back in my Nana hotel room with 2 more bottles of beer and the aforementioned girl, or at least I hope she was a girl!

I know I did everything that I could do wrong – being slightly the worse for wear in the first place, allowing myself to be hustled into the bar, telling her it was my last night, letting her practically force me to finish my beer, and paying little regard for any sensible form of personal security – so what happened next is entirely my own fault.

What happened next is that after a somewhat inconclusive BJ I suddenly snapped back to full consciousness and discovered that I was alone in the room. My wallet was still there, but minus 10/11,000 baht and £60 UK. The only saving grace was that she had left my Visa card.

While this undoubtedly curtailed my usual last-minute shopping orgy before the flight home, I was amazed at how philosophically I quickly came to accept this turn of events.

My questions are these;

A] Is it possible I was drugged? (Any such tales I have heard suggest that the victim loses hours, if not days.)

B] On an even more hypothetical note, I would be interested to know the opinions of those more versed in Thai ways than I am as to the likely outcome if someone in my situation decided to re-visit the bar in some kind of investigatory capacity. Would it make a difference if I went alone/with a friend/a Thai friend/a policeman? (I am hoping to turn my experience into the starting point for a piece of fiction, so all surmise, however brutal, will be gratefully received.)

For what it’s worth, though I paid no attention to the name of the bar, its location is precisely as described. I also paid a barfine, can still remember the girl’s given name and would recognize her again, even by the time I return to LOS next year.

[Guest]

Iagra,

you might well have been drugged. The fact that you became conscious very fast could mean that the dosage was too low (from the thief's point of view), or that you might have quite a bit resistance towards the particular drug used.

As for , forget it. Unless you kept samples of the drinks in your room, and you have witnesses that a particular lady was with you at a certain time, you cannot prove anything. And you don't even know the name of the bar. Suppose you did, you might even run into trouble with whoever is running the place - you never know what connections these people have.

We all make mistakes and we learn from them. You were still quite lucky - I know people who lost much, much more. Just chalk it up to experience.

[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]

[spirit_of_town_hall]

Iagra,

What goes around comes around, she may have gotten away with it with you, however she will not always be so fortunate. Next time she slips up and is compromised the guy might be some Russian, Japanese, Gangster who has her dealt with.

Let someone else get their hands dirty

Unfortunately by what you have said and other reports coupled with my owv observations from speaking with punters and girls alike this sort of "roll" is on the rise.

Every time I read the Pattaya mail and I read about a Jorg, or Hans aged 31 dying in their hotel room I am pretty sure there has been foul play.

You could have been out for days and missed your flight!!

[thai3]

Sorry to hear that you were ripped off by a bad girl.

Never tell a girl it is your last night,it makes this sort of event more likely and if the night goes OK she will want to go to the airport with you, another never in my book-peter

 

quote:

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in the first place, allowing myself to be hustled into the bar, telling her it was my last night,.[/QB]

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[Guest]

Frankly, I don't think you were drugged. There haven't been any incidents of that reported lately and when it was a big item it was in Pattaya not BKK. The police cracked down on that very hard when it happened, arrested a lot of folks and issued some serious jail time. Nobody seems real interested in reinventing it in Bangkok.

More likely you simply fell asleep while getting a relaxing BJ after a few beers...hey, happens to me on occasion....I also very much hate to say this, but are you sure the money was there to begin with?...many nights I've had a great evening on the town and woke up, having slept alone, and wondered where all my money went.

Frankly the stealing of money in that magnitude is unusual, but since you told the girl you were leaving and if it's the bar I think it is then she may well have stolen your money.

The surefire way to find out would have been to go to the bar the next night and if she wasn't there she stole it....If she stole that much she's history for a long time. Or, at least, until her friends tell her the coast is clear.

It isn't going to do any good to report it to the bar your next trip as too much time will have elapsed and they wouldn't be able to do anything about it if they wanted to.

However, I really think it is time to correct some serious misinformation that is being perpetuated on this board. You don't get beat up by Thais for complaining about problems in bars or girls you bar fine.

Most girls that go with customers don't have boyfriends as no guy is gonna let his girl sleep with other guys any more than you and I would. If they do have boyfriends they live back home and, being pretty ignorant of the real world, think all the money for the new house came from working as a waitress.

If they have a local boyfriend there is no way he is going to be allowed to hang around work. Think of it like you are the bar owner, Thai or farang...Are you going to let some ignorant country oaf hang around and beat up customers? Are you going to tolerate a girl working for you who frequently has customers come back and say she treated them poorly, stole their money or took a powder after the bar fine?

 

This thing about the Thai boyfriend kicking back while his chick makes the money is almost as rare as it is in the west...The guys are just as jealous as the ladies...It happens, but not that much. And those guys are usually such scumbags that the girl can't find him because he's out hitting the Thai bars chasing chicks.

I can't say this strongly enough. You are safe as a kitten complaining about a problem to any bar in Nana, Clinton and Cowboy. The bar owners want to know this kind of stuff. They are not dummies. You may get a blank stare and you definitley won't get your 10,000 back, but they do want to know and generally will do something about it if a girl gets only a few complaints. About 6 months ago a dancer in Voodoo was fired for stealing, believe it or not, toilet paper from her customers room in the Crown Sukhumvit....Not her first complaint, her last. Just like you know who amongst your co-workers is a good egg and who is a thief...the owners know or suspect.

I repeat...the only farangs in danger of getting a beating are somebody who is in the business and has seriously stepped on some very fucking big toes or been a major pain in the butt to somebody who thinks they deserve a warning.

As it is the bar owners in Nana, Cowboy and Nana are like a pit of vipers....they wouldn't walk across the street to piss down the other gusy throat if his teeth were on fire.....And they don't beat up and kill each other.....So, you think a customer is going to get beat up or shot over a complaint about shoddy service?....Not likely.

Not that it doesn't happen. I am speaking as somebody who has been attacked once and had the shit kicked out of him once. There may be somebody on this forum who can match my experience in the bars, but I doubt there is somebody who can eclipse it.

A Thai can get into some serious shit hitting a farang and the police will definitely get involved if it happens. Don't mess with the Goose that lays the golden eggs. The few Farangs murdered or beaten by Thais in the last few years have been businees or personal disputes involving either very big money or very shady characters.

Hell, the police won't even let you throw a farang out for bringing in his own beer...You have to call the police. And getting a shooter from Chonburi to even the score about a bar complaint or a bunch of guys bitching on a forum....Never happen..

This ain't Los Angeles where 25 people get blown away every weekend as victems of random violence. This is a pretty damn safe country, unless you drive on the upcountry highways.

 

A farang will have a problem if he starts beating the shit out of an employee or refuses to put away his camera when asked or refuses to hang around about a bill dispute until the police arrive.(Nana, Clinton and Cowboy don't have a single rip-off bar and I'm not sure that stuff happens that much on the second floor of the Pong too much anymore.)

But, you will not have a problem if you complain to a mammasan. It's about as dangerous as complaining to the manager of a McDonalds about a bad burger, except you'll get more platitudes from the McDonalds manager. The Thai manager will be non-responsive to you unless you have a really solid case, that's the Thai way. But, they will hear you and react. You gotta be a real prick and really really obnoxious and confrontational to get savaged in Thailand....Or party with a bunch of crazy Ladyboys from Sukhumvit at 4 in the morning.

Sorry about your problem Iagra. Bad thing to have happen on your last day. Here's hoping your next trip will be a real rip-snorter. nepfan@hotmail.com

[elfman36]

NEPFAN: I don't know you, except what I read on this board, but I wanted to say how much I enjoyed that last posting. I thought that was pretty damn informative, and as much as we get sarcastic dickheads who pop off regarding any posting on this board, I think you deserve a thumbs up from me and if your around NEP anytime Sept. 16-21, I'll throw in a beer to prove it.

Cheers,

elfman

[Guest]

elfman36,

I agree with you about NEPFAN post, It clears up a lot of miss understandings for me.

elfman36,

Please send me a email, we will in BKK at the same time. TexasL@att.net

Thanks

LeoTex

[spirit_of_town_hall]

Interesting comments from Nepfan,

A lot of Farangs me included are / have been under the impression that any sort of complaint, asserting of rights in a genuine position would get us in big shit.

I think a lot of the girls play on this as they are not stupid and realise that our biggest fear is being beaten up by pipe wealding Thai guys or thrown in the monkey house by a corrupt cop on their say so.

I have always felt that Nana is relatively safe, as is cowboy but what about Pattaya? That is the only place where I have seen any trouble and had a freelancer try and threaten me. Whats the best approach when dealing with this sort of situation,to call their bluff? To go straight to the tourist police and have everyone bar girl and farang alike calling you a grass?

From what epfan said it does make good sense from the bar owners perspective to take complaints graciously, but for the complainer it would mean that all her friends would be saying . Look there goes the Farang that grassed up Tuk or whatever.

[Guest]

Look there goes the Farang that grassed up Tuk or whatever.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nope, they get scared of trying it on with you because you have more power than them know how to use it and will use it. It actually gains you respect. They don't run scared from you from you but they will be cauttious and treat you with a bit of respect

[Guest]

Not familiar with the term grassing up. But I can assure you the girl wants to get involved with the police a whole lot less than you. She is considered a third class citizen working in an illegal operation providing an illegal service. If she says she's going to call the police, pop another beer, smile and say "great, here's the phone."

If you frequent one area it's not a bad idea to smile and nod at the police as they may remember your courtesy if they have to get involed. They won't smile back (it's a cop thing) but they will remember.

As far as you calling the police, The tourist police are generally there to intevene in disputes between businesses and scam artists, not bar girl disputes. And the regular police are less than enthused about getting involved in the general disputes about price between a bar girl and her customer. They're more likely to arrest whoever called because they wasted their time.

If, on the other hand, you have a serious problem, by all means call the police. My advice would be to think carefully about whether your problem is serious enough to involve the police, same as in Western countries, and then call the tourist police (1155) and tell them your problem and ask what to do. If it's not their area, they'll usually make sure you get to talk to a regular policeman who can speak adequate English. They'll also probably do you the favor of blowing you off if they think it would be unwise for you to involve the regular police.

But, be warned, Thai police, unlike their Western counterparts, are totally intolerant of those who involve the police just to get even with somebody.

Additionally, if you have a dispute with a bar owner and its down to calling the police, either call the tourist police or pay the disputed bill and return with the tourist police. Don't wait for the bar owner to call the police. The police he is calling already have a financial and personal relationship with the bar owner and you are going to lose this argument, have to pay the bar fine and a "tip" to the police unless you have some real compelling proof in your favor.

I think the advice here is the same as in Western countries. Settle your disputes without police help. If you can't settle the dispute, walk away unless it is really important. And if you must deal with the police be respectful and well organized in your presentation....drunk ramblings are not going to cut it.

 

Finally, a bit of humor. About a month ago there was a very drunk customer in Red Lips bar in Nana Plaza who ran up a bill and then needed to borrow 200 Baht from the girl he had barfined at another bar. He thought about it a while and decided his "date" had stolen his money. He kept telling the bar he wanted them to do something and they kept telling him she didn't work there and it was his problem. He returned several times and grew increasingly obnoxious so the bar called the police who immediately responded and arrested the idiot for the 2 kilos of marijuana in his backpack that he had been bragging about all night. Some people are just too stupid to be let out unsupervised.

[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: nepfan ]