Any comebacks for stupidity?

[Guest]

Nepfan

Hope everyone will seriously read your desciption of the scene here. Having spent 20+ years here on an on and off basis, I concur completely with your observations.

Yes, there are all the hard core girls and the would be superstars, the ripoffs and the cheats with husbands, but most are as you descibe, often frightened, too shy or ashamed of what the world has done to them, in order to take care of their families. Thise who see them only as sex workers have either spent very little real time with the girls or have such a jaded view of life the they can only be highly unsuccessful in relationships.........here or elsewhere.

I would think that for every farang heart that has been broken, and for every one that has been lied to, it happens to the BGs on a factor of 10.

[Guest]

I couldn't agree more with most that Nepfan has said and also with LaoHuli.

 

So many people are really out of touch with these girls lives but think they know it all. I don't know every detail of every girls lives and I would never profess to know but I have experienced a bit here.

How good is your Thai? Have you ever lived with someone involved in the scene(and I don't mean used to be involved) Well, personally I've lived in a slum, yes lived not visited, for 5 months (long enough for me) and I saw alot and had good friendships with some of these people believe it or not. I was robbed only once by one of these 'friends', a 16 year old kid that had always liked my discman. I had some very expensive stuff there also. Anyway, I got an apology of sorts from the boy and the community leader. Actually, much to my surprise the kid was sent away to live in another slum with his grandmother as punishment. And I know he definately didn't want to go...kind of felt bad about that... anyway...I did see some of the guys often beat their girlfriends after being on the whisky. I saw much family feuding, ya-bah smoking and I saw and knew many of the girls that worked in the farang a go-go's (most the girls in this far-flung suburb slum worked in Nana.

None of the twenty or so regular working girls i met here had boyfriends, and about 3% of other girls i've met/bedded/or known (and it must be more than 100 by now) don't have thai boyfriends and many of these girls i know well (i don't hunt around too much - often go with girls i know and have been with).

I also don't believe in the thai retribution thing too much and I know that the girls play on our fears. They are not stupid. Many girls aren't resourceful enough to organise this kind of thing and yes, nothing is free also. They have very torn and fragmented lives themselves in many cases and no real steady relationships or people to really care or support their concerns. I know a girl who was busted for selling yah bah..facing at least 5 years prison or a 5 grand on the spot fine by the police for them to 'not know anything' about it. This girl appeared to have many friends. She got some help but not as much help or support as you'd expect from someone in this position. Who visits these kind of people in prison? No-one. No boy friend, generally no family and certainly no farang boy friend.

Bad thais will find all kinds of sneaky ways to rip you off and embezzle money out of you in business and I guess in the bars and bedrooms also, but I believe general blatant theft is rare - this is a very broad generalisation and I know many will disagree but i'm just talking from my own personal experiences and observations. Actually, it would be interesting to throw that one in the polls section. Ever been robbed by a thai? Not scammed. Robbed?

Let the myths die.....

cheers,

dan

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[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by nepfan:

Almost all enter Bar Life innocent, naive and ignorant. young girls....excited and overwhelmed by the energy of Khrung Thep. That doesn't last long.

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i aggree with almost all what you post about the nightlife, only this one point i do not agree entirely.

i would call it another myth that these girls come innocent from the villages down to the big bad city. almost all the girls in my wife's village who entered the trade started off playing around in the village. these villages are not the little paradises, you have prostitution, drugaddiction and television.

another myth is the bad thai man. i know more heartbroken thai men in my wife's village (and family) whose wifes left them because the lure of the big money/easy life, than women who have been abandoned by their husbands.

a cousin of my wife nearly killed himself when he discovered his wife working part time in the local brothel. she moved on to the city.

i housed several brothers, cousins because we feared that they might kill themselves after their wifes left them.

i know more stories like that than the other way around. not that they are not existing, but this is just my personal experience, no statistic.

fact is, that it is nowadays not easy for a villageboy to find a wife, and then to keep her from running off into the trade. there is always a cousin/sister/friend who will tell her how easy life in the bar is, how much money to be made.

[thalenoi]

Good post from all of you who are cracking these stupid Farang myths (Nepfan, Dan, Flyonzewall)

I happened to be lucky enough(?) to get invited to live some time with a BG. She rented a 3x3 meter room for 1500 baht/month somewhere around soi 23. The two stories townhouse had 12 rooms for rent, all occupied by Bg's, none had a boy friend or husband.

I got acquainted with some other people living in the same steet, some were maids some were having food stalls. I got impressed by their way of sharing the little they have amongst themselves. You know, If you ran out of soap or whatever, someone will be there to help you out with anything, bring you the right shop when you need srews or a hammer. We had meals together on the street where everyone brought whatever he could contribute. I never had the feeling I was taken advantage of.

A true spirit longtime gone in the west.

I spent two periods of time with the same BG, and yes, she is hardened by life. She did not expect me to sent money or buy her a house. I told her my plans to live at least 6 months a year in LOS, we have been looking at possible renting places for me. I know she does not believe I will rent a place to stay for longer periods. Altough she took care of me as no western womwn would, she did not get emotionally invoved with me. As a result something was missing in our relationship.

I will return in november (flights are booked) but have no intention to spent some time with her. I will be chasing that unnatainable dream we have elsewhere. The impossibiblty of building a true relatiionship is due to both the farang and the BG's attitude.

I will however visit her in the last days of my trip to have a meal in her street with her and some of the very nice human beings living there.

[jingjoh]

A friend of mine living here for the last year had become involved with a Thai girl, I never found out where he had actually met her but about 4 months or so into the relationship he found out he was drinking regularly with her husband in the local. He lived in a very Thai area near his work, alot of semi hidden criminal activity in this area, but the residential section was protected by the local 'godfather'?? hehe, and was in fact very safe.

Anyway that really fucked him up. I know maybe half a dozen working girls very well, and the only boyfriends they seem to have are farangs sending them money. I do believe not many of them have boyfriends actively with them, but there is no myth about the number of them with kids!

[Guest]

This whole thing about boyfriends and husbands is Farang Myth #3. I work with them. I know their families. I give them money when their mother or baby really is sick. I rent mini-vans to take everybody to their funerals and I take pictures at their weddings. On holidays and Birthdays I go to make merit ceremonies.

I visit them in the hospital when they jump from a 6th story balcony, lose a leg and cripple themselves. Her Farang husband just told her, after two faitful years, to clear out her stuff tomorrow. His Farang wife and children are arriving Monday. What wife? What children? This is a true story. The girl now has one of the new Pattaya style Bar Beers on Soi 23.

They don't all have boyfriends and husbands in the woodworks. They do have unemployed mothers, brothers and sisters in school and orphaned or abandoned children to support in villages with no jobs. Very few of the girls that go with customers have any serious relationship with a Thai boyfriend or husband, either in BKK or back home. It is a myth.

I wonder what percentage of their Farang customers can say the same? 50%? 40%? Full disclosure, of course, being the benchmark

Farang behaviour. I've studied, with envy, postings elsewhere in this forum about techniques for surviving 4 or 5 short times in one afternoon. Only a very very few Superstars among the girls have this problem. Most dancers are praying they get their minimum bar fines in for the month so they don't get their salaries cut. 50% of Dek Serves can't remember the last time they got laid.

Bar girls are here to support babies and families back home, or to make Big Money for a house. Most have left behind failed relationships with boyfriends or husbands who have abandoned them and their children.

Many have had their hearts broken hard, some more than once. They have absolutely no desire to have any relationship ever again with a Thai man.

Many have secret hopes of finding a decent relationship with a decent Farang because, as bad as most farangs treat them, it is better than their Thai boyfriends treated them in the past.

Almost all enter Bar Life innocent, naive and ignorant. young girls....excited and overwhelmed by the energy of Khrung Thep. That doesn't last long.

Bold attractive girls who have a nice personality or smile and can speak a little English usually end up with a string of customers. The shy, unattractive or language challanged frequently sleep alone.

However, even a Dek Serve who never goes with customers can make 8,000 - 12,000 per month in salary, drink commissions, tip shares and individual tips. A big jump up from the 10,000 per year they can make working 12 hour shifts bending over in the muggy heat of a ricefield for 100 Baht per day, when work is available.

Sooner or later nearly all fall in love. They step down to Dek Serve to be faithful to their new love. They blow off their other customers who thought the girl really liked them only. They take a 70% cut in income and wait patiently for their one love to return (ever see Madame Butterfly?). He sends some money for a month or two, calls and writes letters or sends e-mail. Suddenly it all stops. No explanation,it all just stops. Is he dead? What happened? Her e-mails go unanswered. How long will she wait?

Maybe one night she finds out that that her true love is back in town and just bar fined the sexy younger dancer in a bar across the way. Next time, if she's smart, and a lot of them are very smart, she won't be so fast to burn her bridges with her other customers. Would you?

Farangs are excellant teachers and the girls are quick studies. The girls are taught, by their customers the finer points of deception, lying and haggling over money. They learn to hedge their bets with multiple partners and break hearts without a second thought. They learn, from the Farang, how to tell somebody that they love only them and wait only for them.

They learn very fast, the same way we Farnags do, that a little Jai Kang (hard heart) goes a long way toward surviving in Bar Life.

Like all of us they adapt...Some can't handle this emotional roller coaster. Most go home or become Dek Serves and don't go with customers until special Farang with the twinkle in his eye breaks their heart, again.

The only way to survive and make money is to get hard as nails. Is it a big surprise to anyone these girls soon learn to protect their heart and not believe anything a farang tells them; they smile, look him in the eyes and tell him, he is so big, so smart, so strong. But, it's an act.

They have no qualms about telling one customer they love only him while waiting for two other guys to send e-mail and money. Hell, their customers lie to them without batting an eye, why shouldn't they?

For every girl that has a secret Thai boyfriend or husband there are 5 nice, honest, caring girls who would make a decent guy happy for the rest of his life. Unless he comes to Thailand, again, alone.

[Guest]

Originally posted by nepfan:

"This whole thing about boyfriends and husbands is Farang Myth #3 ... They don't all have boyfriends and husbands in the woodworks."

Just a bit of anecdotal evidence about the Thai (as opposed to farang) prostitution scene (or a part of it):

A free-lancer who plies her trade at the Siam Hotel coffee shop, an intelligent and forthright lady, told me that 70% of the women working there had Thai boyfriends/husbands. I know one girl there, whose boyfriend plays in the coffee shop band; every night he sees her go out with customers several times. Mai pen rai. Pecunia non olet.

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]

[Guest]

NEPFAN,

I'm a super newbie, but had to comment on your post. I thought it excellent. Many jaded people here, which is understandable, as many here have experienced the dark side of LOS. But I must say, your insight into the reality of a B/G's side of the story is refreshing. I think that we must take some of the responsibilty of where they (B/G's) are in life. If not for us, would they come to BKK to lie on their backs for large amounts of Baht? Of course not. Would they be better off living in object poverty in their native village? It's a question I am unable to answer. What I have seen here is a willingness to group a large number of human beings into a mold that says "Every one of these girls will take you for everything you own, given the oportunity". For this reason, I enjoyed your insight into "the flip side", very much. Thank you for sharing it!

[Guest]

Sorry...but just a follow-up to last post.

1st visit to LOS was ten years ago with my wife and 3 yr. old child. Brought there by expat in the hotel industry. Fell in love with LOS, without entering sex-oriented scene. I divorsed 1 yr. ago, and made a trip back. In seven days, never made it further than NEP/Nana Hotel circuit. What a trip!. First B?G I met in Rainbow 1, and asked her to spend the next 6 days with me. Took her to Chaig Mai, and treated her like a princess. Left 1K baht every afternoon for her to buy food (I was on business), and there waiting for me would be the bill (never more than 100 baht), of which she would proudly present the change. I left thousands of baht laying around all the time, of which she had free access. My point being is, that there are some very nice, sweet, thai women who are genuienly greatful when you treat them right. She had never been on a plane, so when got to Chaing Mai, she was not feeling good at all (I think first time on a plane). I went to Pharmacy, got her what she needed, and spent the day wiping her forhead with cold towel, and making her confortable. We went back with her to Rainbow 1 in BKK, and I was a GOD. B/G's are people. Let's not forget that!!!

[Crash999]

Nepfan,

While a lot of the things you say about the hardening of bargirls ring true, it also sounds like you are believing a bit too much of what these girls tell you.

Most of them don't have boyfriends? Most of them learn the tricks of the trade from farang? Most of them were completely innocent when they first came to the big city? And (biggest of all) most of them don't like Thai men?

Come on! It doesn't take too much experience to see such things taking place first-hand. These girls will tell you exactly what they think you want to hear. The only way to get around this mask is to not give a sh** and not have a negative reaction, no matter what they say.

Only then will you hear about the problems they have with their boyfriends/husbands, about losing their 'virginity' with their first client, and so on.

Cheers!