Terrorist attacks in London

[Guest]

Nah...they didn't see the moon so fasting hasn't started yet. We're in the year 2528 , I'm bemused to say the least.

 

Religion is one of the biggest crap around, Pamela Anderson's make up almost makes sense comparatively.

 

I'm stuck in Sri Lanka for a couple of days more, hard to get business done fast when workdays last 5 hours...

[Flashermac]

As I recall from my university days, the problem is called the one of the founder and the followers. (Applies to political theories as well as religions.)

 

When the founder of the religion/philosophy/whatever is gone, the followers start arguing about what it REALLY means.

 

No sooner was Muhammad dead than the Muslims started fighting over who would succeed him. (Thus the Shiites and Sunnis, who have been killing each other ever since.) Early Christian thinkers soon started dividing over what Jesus REALLY meant, and after the Reformation even supposedly enlightened Europe was torn by bloody religious wars. Buddhism, for all of its peacefulness, is divided into sects with some rather different notions of what the Buddha really meant.

 

Looks like the simple fact is that mankind will argue about anything, and some folks are usually willing to kill those who don't agree with them.

 

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

but that there are no significant cultural or religious differences that would make it difficult for them to adapt to life to any country in the Arab world.

 

In what way does this justify that they were driven out from the land that they have inhabited for centuries. If you listen to Jewish squatters (settlers) on tv you will notice that they very often speak English with an American accent. What gives Americans right to other peoples land with reference to some fictional god.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK

[Evel_Penivel]

ALHOLK said:

 

In what way does this justify that they were driven out from the land that they have inhabited for centuries. If you listen to Jewish squatters (settlers) on tv you will notice that they very often speak English with an American accent. What gives Americans right to other peoples land with reference to some fictional god.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK

 

The short answer is, because Israelis have kicked the Arabs' butts in a series of wars and to the victors go the spoils. But other factors to consider:

 

1) The Arabs who left the state of Israel weren't driven out, they fled. About 20% of the population within Israel's 1948 borders was Arab and today about 20% of all Israeli citizens are Arabs.

2) It's nonsense that the Arabs who today claim to be Palestinians have ancestors who lived for centuries within the borders of historic Israel (or Palestine or Transjordan or Judea , chose which name you like best - in the Ottoman years, it didn't even have a name). In 1948, there were about 1 million Arabs within the borders of what is now Israel, the vast majority of which were, just like the Jews, immigrants to the area. Before the arrival of European Zionists in the 1880's, Palestine was one of the poorest, desolate and most wretched areas in the world. The relative prosperity of the Zionist settlements attracted Arabs to the area because of the opportunity for jobs and business. This trend continued until 1948, in part because living in the British mandate area was considered vastly superior to living under the French. About 750,000 to 800,000 Arab inhabitants fled due to the attacks of Arab armies on Israel, but the 150,000 to 200,000 who stayed were generally the ones who actually owned land. BTW, Yasser Arafat wasn't born in "Palestine," he was born in Cairo, Egypt.

3) In the aftermath of WWII, millions of people all over the world, especially on the losing side, left traditional homelands. The Palestinian Arabs had mostly sided with the Nazis (the Grand Mufti of Jersusalem, Arafat's uncle and spiritual as well as secular head of Palestinian Arabs for about 20 years, was a guest of Hitler during WWII and organized SS divisions among Muslims in the Balkans, among other activities.) In Palestine, the Arabs had tried to push the Jews into the sea as a contribution to the Final Solution. They lost, so they faced the consequences of losing. They could have chosen to live in peace with the Jews.

4) You are making some wild assumptions about the national origins of Israeli citizens. Because some Israelis speak English with an American accent doesn't mean most Israeli were born in America. Since the nation was formed a total of 2,894,094 people immigrated to Israel: 454,100 from Asia, 519,700 from Africa, 1,761,196 from Europe and 258,000 from America (figures are from 2003). The total population of Israel was about 6.5 million, so about half of Israel's population was born there.

[MaiLuk]

>>In Palestine, the Arabs had tried to push the Jews into the sea as a contribution to the Final Solution. They lost, so they faced the consequences of losing.<<

 

Would be more accurate to say several arab nations agreed to a coordinated military invasion of palestine for the stated purpose of slaughtering every israeli man woman and child. Would have been another catastrophe had the jews not managed some military victories and gained some defensive positions that the arabs now want returned.

 

A huge number of arabs still want to annihilate israel. Extermination is even official government policy for some countries such as with that so called civilization in iran. If anyone expects me to feel sorry for the poor arabs who claim the existence of israel is a "humiliation" to islam, all i have to say is not likely. The iranians and the others can take their murderous racism and go jump off a bridge.

 

 

The palistinians in permanent refugee camps is a disgrace and a human tragedy. And it was caused by the arab invasion as pointed out. The palestinians left for the purpose of waiting for the jews to be killed with the idea that they would then return.

 

Why don't the oil rich middle east countries, since the palestinian exodus was their fault, use some of those thousands of billions of petro dollars they have been raking in to fix the problem in short order?

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

The short answer is, because Israelis have kicked the Arabs' butts in a series of wars and to the victors go the spoils.

 

That's cool. Consequently you must admitt that if the Arabs get their act together they have the have the right, both morally and legally, to throw the Jews into the sea as you obviously beleive in the principle that those with the biggest guns are always right.

 

You are making some wild assumptions about the national origins of Israeli citizens. Because some Israelis speak English with an American accent doesn't mean most Israeli were born in America.

I wasn't refering to the average citizen of Israel. I was refering to the so called settlers. Anyway what gives any American the right to take other peoples land even if they are a minority.

 

As for the ret of your post you are obviously a victim of American propaganda.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK

[BelgianBoy]

ALHOLK said:

I wasn't refering to the average citizen of Israel. I was refering to the so called settlers. Anyway what gives any American the right to take other peoples land even if they are a minority.

 

As for the ret of your post you are obviously a victim of American propaganda.

ALHOLK,

 

Any foreign journalist swarming in the settlements used to look for the easiest interviews, hence in English.

Quite simple really.

Plus we are talking here about 9000 settlers, hardly anything representative IMO.

 

All other historic facts presented by Evel are pretty accurate as well, easy to check on the net.

Calling it propaganda only shows you as a fool.

 

BB

[Redbaron]

they very often speak English with an American accent

 

A lot of people whose first language is not English, speak English with an American accent. I'm told it's because they learn it from American cassettes, or people taught English by Americans... makes sense.

I work with quite a few Japanese, Chinese and Koreans (customers). More often than not if they speak English without an "Asian" accent they speak like an American.

[Flashermac]

I got asked again today by an American where I am from. Happens now and then, so maybe I'm finally losing my accent.

 

Only probably is ... he thought I was Australian!

 

::

[Evel_Penivel]

ALHOLK said:

 

That's cool. Consequently you must admitt that if the Arabs get their act together they have the have the right, both morally and legally, to throw the Jews into the sea as you obviously beleive in the principle that those with the biggest guns are always right.

 

 

I was referring to the realities of the situation, not moral and legal right. In any violent confrontation, whether a barroom fight betwen two drunks or a world war, it's the winner who dictates the terms to the loser. But I certainly agree that the Israelis have their backs to sea. Yes, indeed, if the Arabs get the chance, they will slaughter every Jewish man, woman and child. In this case, it's the terms the victor wants to dictate that differ. The Israelis want to live in peace, the Arabs want to annihilate the Israelis.

 

Morally and legally, I believe the Jews have a right to homeland with secure borders and also the right to defend that homeland. The tiny speck of land called Israel, home to 6.5 million people, is less than 0.5% of the land area available to the world's 330 million Arabs. Back in 1948, more than 50 years of suffering by people of all religions (but mainly Jews and Muslims) could have been avoided if Arabs had accepted Israel.

 

I would like to know which facts in the other parts of my reply you consider to be false. Do you dispute the Grand Mufti was a rabid anti-Semite and Nazi ally? Where was Arafat born? How many Arabs lived in historical Israel in, say, 1850?