talking like a gay

[Guest]

I met a guy who lived in Japan for some time. He learned the language there by talking mainly to women. As time went by, he discovered men thought he was gay. Why? Because he spoke exactly like a woman.

Is this a legitimate concern for Thai? Sure, men and women use some different words, but listening to both I think there are more differences. Is there things that can be done to help one sound straight?

[Lamock Chokaprret]

Besides the obvious khrap / kha ending particle and the pom / (di)chan pronouns, there are some other differences as well.

For instance, it's my understanding that the girls use more doubling of words, but I believe there to be specific instances that are more in usage by women than men. The only one I know of is 'suay-suay,' where they seem to put a different rythm on the second word.

There might also be some issues in pronoun usage in Thai (e.g., use of 'noo' for 'I' might be more appropriate coming from a girl) but I doubt you'll run into these for awhile because they are pretty subtle.

I believe in Japanese there are multiple levels of formality involved in address of individuals. As I understand it, these are quite complex conveying a significant amount of information regarding the relationships involved. I don't think Thai has an equivalent.

What I have found with Thai is that it is a little harder to understand males than females for some reason. I too seem to speak more with females and hear more of them speaking, making for a tough time of it when speaking to males.

[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: Lamock Chokaprret ]

[Lamock Chokaprret]

flyonzewall said:

quote:

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also in thai there are many forms of adress depending on the relationship between the people and the hirarchal position towards each other.

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Now that I knew but didn't really think it applied to the situation described. Actually I think there are only 3-4 levels in Thai but there is actually quite a few more in Japanese and I also believe that some of them are reserved specifically for male / female relationships. Basically in Thai (at least what I know) there is a colloquial form, a polite form and the royal form for many (most?) words.

To say that Thai has many slang words qualifies for the understatement of the month. Boy does it ever! And humor from the perspective of a non-native speaker is a subject for a completely new thread! Your point is well taken about the vocabulary though. This is always a problem regardless of gender. Basically every new person you encounter has no frame of reference for your history with the language and so they do not try to tailor their speech to what you know. Basically I just try to follow the overall meaning by picking up keywords. Sometimes this is successful and sometimes not.

[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: Lamock Chokaprret ]

[Crash999]

quote:

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Originally posted by Escape Rabbit:

I met a guy who lived in Japan for some time. He learned the language there by talking mainly to women. As time went by, he discovered men thought he was gay. Why? Because he spoke exactly like a woman.,

Is this a legitimate concern for Thai?

---

I also lived in Japan for a while and yes, there are similar problems if you wind up learning from a female teacher. Part of it is that, if you're good at learning languages, you will pick up the speech nuances and mannerisms of the locals.

In Japan, as others have mentioned, there are levels of speech. Officially, if I can remember correctly, there is casual speak, then you have polite speak (teneigo) and formal polite speak (keigo), the latter of which I was awful at. In addition, there are male and female expressions that, although similar, are quite distinct. Just as you wouldn't hear too many females say 'Ah! Sou dayo?' you won't hear many males say 'Nnn... sou desu wa?'...

It has been ages since I spoke Japanese so I'm rusty around the edges, but you get the basic idea.

Thai also has different expressions and ways of pronounciation between males and females. Listen to a Thai male speak and listen to a female speak and you'll notice a clear difference.

Just as I had this problem in Japan, I'm having it in Thailand- since I have learned Thai from females I find it much more difficult to understand male speech. As such, I'd rather have a male teacher who can teach me the finer points of the language including the Thai equivalents of, 'hey baby' and 'shout outs to ma homies'.

Cheers!

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

As already mentioned by Lamock Chokaprret, there are a few obvious signs. Women use 'kha' instead of 'khrap', and 'chan' (or 'dichan') instead of 'phom'.

The word doubling is also mainly a female thing. It is not the rythm that changes though, but the tone. I believe the second word is pronounced with a high tone.

It is done with a whole range of words, btw. Some of the ones I recall are: aroy, narak, suay, dii, roon. There are many more though.

The only one I recall hearing guys use is 'klay' (as in: near).

As for the 'noo' issue. Not too many girls will use this, at least not when they are older than 20 or so. It is mostly used by kids (both sexes), and even then mostly only when speaking to elders.

Another thing that seems to be more a girl thing is replacing 'I' with your first name. For example, a girl called Noi would say "Noi pay talaat", rather than "Chan pay talaat".

"Phii" is used by both male and female when speaking to people who are younger. So, whereas a guy would likely not say "Somsak pay nuat", saying "Phii pay nuat" would not be strange at all (assuming he speaks to someone younger than him).

BTW, I would not be surprised at all to find that this is just the tip of the iceberg and that there are a lot more subtle differences.

Sanuk!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lamock Chokaprret:

Now that I knew but didn't really think it applied to the situation described. Actually I think there are only 3-4 levels in Thai but there is actually quite a few more in Japanese and I also believe that some of them are reserved specifically for male / female relationships. Basically in Thai (at least what I know) there is a colloquial form, a polite form and the royal form for many (most?) words.

To say that Thai has many slang words qualifies for the understatement of the month. Boy does it ever! And humor from the perspective of a non-native speaker is a subject for a completely new thread! Your point is well taken about the vocabulary though. This is always a problem regardless of gender. Basically every new person you encounter has no frame of reference for your history with the language and so they do not try to tailor their speech to what you know. Basically I just try to follow the overall meaning by picking up keywords. Sometimes this is successful and sometimes not.

[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: Lamock Chokaprret ]

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there is also the written form (no personal knowledge, i only speak colloquial and a bit of halfpolite thai), then there is the gutterlanguage (got a clue about that one too).

the forms of adressing i am familiar with are:

gu - mueng, ei - ee, pom - chan, chan - toe, nuu - pii, nong - pii, kapachao, dichan, ataman - johm. but there must be lots more.

i have read once somewhere that in the old days there were lots more, but in the thirties they tried to simplify that. a few disappeared, but many forms of adress stayed. i think these forms underwent a change in time also, i somewhere heard that gu - mueng was once a very polite form of adressing once. maybe someone with more knowledge of the language could clarify that, i am a bit out of my depth here.

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

Flyonzewall, thanks for the list. Hope you don't mind me clarifying things a bit.

gu - mueng: I - you, impolite/colloquial ('man' = it, belongs in this list as well)

ei - ee: you male - you female, *very* impolite (use this at the wrong time to the wrong person and you will get your ass kicked)

pom - chan: I male - I female, normal

chan - toe: I female - you (female/male) - toe (or how I would spell it 'thur') is a polite way of saying 'you'

nuu - pii: I for (much) younger - I for elder

nong - pii: I for younger - I for elder

kapachao: sorry, no clue, never heard this before

dichan: I female, polite

ataman - johm: don't know these either

Sanuk!

[Guest]

When I first came to Thailand I used the expression 'pang pang' a lot to describe something as very expensive.

I dropped the expression after too many females told me that I sounded like a ladyboy.

[bibblies]

I find it hard to understand dubbed Thai male voices on films. It's much easier to read the Thai subtitles.

Isn't it weird that most foreigners go up an octave when they speak Thai compared to their native languages? I think lots of farangs sound girly just for that reason.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lamock Chokaprret:

I believe in Japanese there are multiple levels of formality involved in address of individuals. As I understand it, these are quite complex conveying a significant amount of information regarding the relationships involved. I don't think Thai has an equivalent.

What I have found with Thai is that it is a little harder to understand males than females for some reason. I too seem to speak more with females and hear more of them speaking, making for a tough time of it when speaking to males.

---

also in thai there are many forms of adress depending on the relationship between the people and the hirarchal position towards each other. that can become extremely complicated especially when it goes into the hirarchy within the extended families. a younger cousin might for example be adressed as elder when the father of the younger cousin is the elder brother of the father of the older cousin.

the reason of difficulties understanding males might be that they are not so used to a westerner speaking thai and his limitations of vocabulary. there are many slang words and thai jokes playing on tonal similarities between words for example.