steffi Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 Firstly, my girlfriend is a non bar girl has a respectable job 15k baht per month and her father is a government employee highly regarded in his province. Anyway, her parents concerns for asking for this much are that they want security for their daughter in case she is dumped later on. They've heard many a story from their Thai friends about Farang taking their daughter away and leaving her stranded later. My girlfriend's family is from Khon Kaen. She has two sisters. I've seen their house. It's a two storey three bedroom house in Khon Kaen. There isn't much furniture in the house. So, I've never been given any idea of what her family's financial situation is. My girlfriend is also, still a virgin. Her family is somewhat strict, not Thai chinese strict but strict by western standards. My girlfriend has a BA from Khon Kaen University. She's even got a picture of her being presented her degree by the king and queen. Both of them visited that year. I love my girlfriend very much but this money thing is getting in the way of our happiness together. That said, when we last sat down and negotiated (lets say) I felt like I was in the room alone and that everybody, including my GF, was reaching into my pockets. My feeling is that I want to see my girlfriend take an active role in the negotiations. She knows what her parents are asking for is too high and is embarrased to mention this to her friends. But even though she knows this she has never tried to get it down to a more realistic figure to spend up the process. My general feeling is that if I end up paying this much that in no way should I feel any further obligation for financial support of her family. Nor should any of my assets (whatever they would be, I'm 31, should need to be transfered into join names) If I want the girl how do you suggest I negotiate this sin sot down to a more realistic figure? Again, their concern is that I will dump her and leave her stranded. Why they think this given everything I've shown/given (On a previous trip I bought mer a 2k Cartier Watch to show her my feelings were genuine) my girlfriend is beyond me. I maintained a long distance relationship with my GF for the last 1.5 years and her parents know I'm in constant contact with her. The current expectations is that I'll pay the agreed sum at a later date in the future. Nothing set yet. I am also obviously concerned about leaving a large sum of money in Thailand when I'm married and living with my future wife elsewhere. The slightest sign of any problem with the marriage and the wife has every incentive to give up a leave rather than working through any problem that may develop. What should be the correct amount giving the above background? How directly should the amount reflect my girlfriends earnings vs background of her family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 God, am i lucky that my wife comes from a poor village family, her mother never asked for a dowry and was just happy that her daughter found a nice husband. You have a big problem there, because given that background, that amount might not be too high. I could go into a monologue why i think that sing sot is perverted tradition which was once very useful, but that won't help you. I have heard of many weddings where the dowry was just part of the ceremony to give face but later handed back to the husband, but it does not seem to be happening in your case. If you have that amount of money, you might be forced to pay. If you do not, or cannot pay, than you might not be able to marry your girlfriend. And the way how you described your girlfriend i do not think that she would run off with you against the will of her parents. How do you stand to your future in laws? because you will have to live with your wife's family for the rest of your days. Even if you do not like them you will have to come to some compromise, because they will always play a big part in you future wife's life. If you marry into a thai family you marry into an extended clan, and to a certain extend you will have to adapt. Otherwise the relationship will most likely not have much of a future. Personally, I have not found too many Thais of that social class very likable, and I would not like to be part of such a family, but that is just my opinion. I just feel a lot happier with the easy going village clan of my old lady. I would not be overly paranoid of them running a scam on you, it is just the way how things are in the more conservative families. They would definately prefer their daughter married to a Thai man from a proper family, who would cough up the million. I do not envy you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 How much would a middle class, college graduate, Thai male making 20K per month pay? He would never be able to pay a million baht. Ask your GF how much dowery her friends got and base it on that figure. You should insist that after wedding expenses, the remaining money be given to your wife. Right now it seems either the family is greedy or they do not want you to marry their daughter. Either reason could cause a marriage disaster IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 quote: Originally posted by shygye: How much would a middle class, college graduate, Thai male making 20K per month pay? He would never be able to pay a million baht. Ask your GF how much dowery her friends got and base it on that figure. You should insist that after wedding expenses, the remaining money be given to your wife. Right now it seems either the family is greedy or they do not want you to marry their daughter. Either reason could cause a marriage disaster IMHO. yes, he could pay that very easily. official salary in thailand rarely reflects the true wealth. And a provincewide respected family I would not consider middle class anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zanemay Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 Steffi, As far as I can tell, Thais think all farangs have millions and millions of baht. I met a teacher taking her class to a museum in upcountry Nan. I gave her my card and she sent me a Christmas card and some email. I thought this was good and if I am ever back that way I will try to visit her. A couple of weeks ago, I got an email from her asking for a loan of 1,000,000 baht! From someone I spoken to for 3 minutes. "My general feeling is that if I end up paying this much that in no way should I feel any further obligation for financial support of her family." Even if you did negotiate such an understanding they would never honor it. You can have all your farang expectations based on Western logic and ethics. They are not worth beans when "negotiating" with Thais. And the idea that it is being held in reserve in case you strand their baby is ludicrous. They'll spend it and ask for more. There are red flags all over this my friend. They are picking your pocket as your intuition tells you and you do not have a single ally. When you start throwing money around in LOS as you did with the watch, you will never know if anyone in the family even likes you, including your gf. Right now the important thing to all of them is how much money they can get out of you ASAP. Given that you probably have 1,000,000 baht to give, what you are really risking is getting your heart broken very badly. Have you read the many, many reports of guys in similar situations who end up as "sad fucks." This sounds like a classic con. Don't let it happen to you. Zane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 When is 1,000,000 baht too much? When it's more than they could expect to get from a Thai man, given their circumstances, their daughter's propsects, etc. That's the only question you should be asking: is this around what a Thai man would have to pay. Paying any more means you are getting fleeced and perhaps more importantly, their demand that you pay more means that the family considers you an outsider. Also, as others have said already, there's no way in hell you can expect to not be on the hook for more over time. Throwing money around with the g/f and her family in LOS is just asking for trouble. The concepts of love and money mix here in ways that we as westerners find unhealthy. Don't have any illusions about the friction and problems this will cause between you and your gf/wife -- they are more important to her than you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 1,000,000 baht is what a Thai man would pay for an upper middle class girl. His parents would probably give him the money. The amount is generally negotiated between the parents of the bride and groom. In most cases, 80%-90%, the sin sot is given to the bride and groom the day after the wedding. Its a redundant custom but paying it shows that you respect Thai culture. If you refuse to pay it you risk losing the girl. If you really can't find the money (which I find hard to believe) I would suggest talking to a Thai friend, or maybe the abbot of the local wat, to negotiate it down for you. Explain that its not part of your culture and try to reach a compromise. BTW, before you condemn the sin sot its worth remembering that the Thai divorce rate is around one fifth of that of the US... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 The slightest sign of any problem with the marriage and the wife has every incentive to give up a leave rather than working through any problem that may develop. Well put mate.... that line would scare me to death. You are correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 zane may, before you give advice, i would advice you to learn a bit more about thailand. thai men pay these amounts of dowry, and it can get a lot higher, in the very rich families it can go into millions of dollars. Don't smell a con where there most probably is none. snake head, good advice, especially the temple thing. would be intersting to have a civilised and informed discussion about dowry, especially the changes during the modernisation, and the differences between the ways of the different classes. i am more up to date with the lower rural classes, the ways how upper classes deal the dowry i do know only through second hand info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanchao Posted July 23, 2001 Report Share Posted July 23, 2001 I'm in the same situation as you. 1 mil. is way too much. I've been asking around with friends who have bachelor degrees from Chiang Mai University, and the going rate seems to be 200 - 300K. I'm having the same problem where my gf's family wants 500K and it's not like they need the money either. I'd like to offer you a different perspective. Namely: YOU are holding all the cards. You have the money. You are the one their daughter wants to marry. Time is on your side. Everything is on your side. An acceptable solution will present itself sooner or later. (Either that or they have you shot. :-) It may be very healthy to make your gf choose YOU over their parents even if that means she'll have a head on collision with her parents, who may disown her, etc. I'm not saying this is the way to go because it means there will be no inheritance 20 years down the road. But it would be healthy I think when your gf is prepared to choose a future with you over the past with her family. And if she choses her family then so be it; she's hardly the only fish in the sea; make sure she realizes this (without actually saying it . Anyway, let's be more constructive and a solution may present itself. In my case it looks like I will either help pay for the house we would be living in (I'm currently paying the rent now anyway) OR help pay for a car for her. This has the advantage that cars and houses can be paid for in monthly installments with a decent interest percentage. A car would just 'show up' as me having bought it for her, when in reality we both are paying for it in 3-4 years. Considering we'd get 200K for her current car, the remaining 500K would seem like the dowry the family expect. Of course I'd be paying only half of it with my gf paying the other half. So my dowry would become 250K which is fair, especially considering we get a car for it as well. My gf makes about 25-30K per month so she's more than capable of chipping in a good percentage which would also show that she loves me and prefers me over the next guy who would just write a check for 500K and proceed to the check out counter. :-) Last thing, forget about the monk. Get your own negotiator, someone you like and trust. Either a Thai friend or a Farang friend who is aware of Thai culture and speaks the language fluently. Cheers, Chanchao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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