Dutch consider burqa ban

[chuckwoww]

Sounds like you have firsthand knowledge Topcatta. Found this article on Al Jazeera....a lot of stuff I didn't know about the race situation in Holland.

 

http://tinyurl.com/ffefd

[Topcatta]

Yeh it doesn't matter who you talk to, Egyptian, Maroccan, Turkish all say the same thing about the Dutch; a closed society.

 

I think it is really good to have freedom of speech but sometimes I don't see the relevance. Like the Danish guy with the cartoons. I don't think it is a good idea to mock other ppl's religions. This guy was an intellectual who just wanted to provoke but for what reason? Was there no other way to bring across his message? Intellectual but not very smart to make cartoons of the Prophet were Islamic culture has made it an art not to use holy faces in their architecture and paintings and only use the name of Allah in holy scripture.

 

Now the Danish guy only made the entranchement worse. Now not only bad intentioned Muslims are acting up against the Western world. Wauw did we win a lot with acting stupid!

[Topcatta]

Anyway I dont quite understand the fuzz about the durqa's in Holland since only very few Muslim ladies actually wear the whole black outfit, almost never see Muslim women wear Purdah (the whole robe including the eyes covered by cloth). Many Muslim girls who grew up here are either not wearing one or are wearing burqa's in a intercultural way. Like wearing their scarffs around their heads but really tight and very fashionably and are covering their bodies but also with very tight materials that dont reveal much. Stylishly dressed in black with on top wearing a bright red look thru poncho, the pretty dollies are eye candy. They have established a new Islamic fashion. Quite daring and good for them!

[..]

Sounds like Malay women in KL. They wear baju kurung that are made of silk, flowing and snug fitting at the same time. Many are brightly and gaily colored with happy patterns and tailored to show off, rather than obscure, but still not "show anything". *Extremely* sexy to me anyway...you shoulda seen my secretary Zarina in KL if you don't get it (a very curvy and stunningly beautiful, but married, young lady!!!).

 

The same with the headscarves (bright colors & patterns), which are totally optional there. No one I saw in Malaysia used the face covering.

 

Couldn't find a good pix showing what I mean with a quick search, but these gals are cute and wearing baju kurungs, just not as form fitting as most of the teen & twenty-somethings in KL (picture darted in more at the waist and tighter around the breasts ala a Vietnamese ao dai)...

 

Cheers,

SD

[limbo]

Ao Dai yummy yummy

[Flashermac]

suadum said:

 

No one I saw in Malaysia used the face covering.

 

 

I've seen just one Malaysian woman with her face covered. It was in Georgetown and she was wearing the complete "Guinness bottle" outfit. The first thought that popped into my head was that her husband must have been a complete arsehole to make her dress like that in such hot weather. Much more common in Malaysia is simply the headscarf and long sleeve blouses. I did a double take when I saw one Malay cutie in jeans and a short sleeve T-shirt -- with the scarf. She was yummy, which is unusual. (Generally, the pretty girls you see in Malaysia will be Chinese.)

 

Malaysia is probably the most liberal Muslim country around, with religious freedom for all (though with legal discrimination to an unfortunate degree). Malays say this is because they adopted Islam willingly some six centuries or so ago. In contrast, most of the Middle East was Christian or polytheistic, before the Islamic armies rode out of Arabia and forced conversion on them. What is now Pakistan was largely converted by force too. Hindu temples were destroyed and Buddhist monks slaughtered whenever found. The Malays chose to become Muslims because they were attracted by the pleasant side of it that they saw from South Asian merchants.

 

Indonesia also is a Muslim country that is fairly free for other religions, except when the fanatics decide to go out and kill the unbelievers of course. Indonesia also was converted by example, not conquest.

 

Ironically enough, the Christian minority in Iraq was quite free under Sadam Hussein, who led a secular government. With Sadam gone, the Islamic fanatics are making life hell for the Christians, forcing the women to dress in Muslim style and even trying to force Christians to convert. Way to go, George Bush, with your great "spiritual advisor" Pat Robertson.

 

[Flashermac]

 

Is a face covering a security issue? Then why only if it is a Muslim face covering?

 

 

 

I suspect that if you walked into a bank with a mask over your face, something unpleasant might happen to you. And while freedom of speech in the US allows the KKK loonies to parade about in their robes, they are forbidden -- by law -- to cover their faces. Does that violate their rights???

[Flashermac]

p.s. How did I bugger up and get everything in bold italic???

[chuckwoww]

Flashermac said:

p.s. How did I bugger up and get everything in bold italic???

You left the b brackets in front of the original quote.

[Topcatta]

Hi Chuckwoww,

 

Thanks for the Al Jazeera article. Little bent towards what they would like reality to be but truthful about the Dutch attitude. As far as I know the killer of Theo van Gogh was from a terrorist organization with connection to Al Quada.

 

Thinking more about the consequences for safety I tend to agree to take the burqa's away for a few reasons:

- it is easy to hide bomb equipment under these big balloon dresses

- female suicidebombers are not uncommon anymore

- this dress is a terrible burdon for the women themselves (especially the Purdah dresses since you dont even see the beginning of a pavement and women fall all over the place, with others laughing their balls off) (Some Islamic women defend the burqa but I would like to see if they live a 100 years without oppression what their opinion would be then, Their defense is the Islamic one that women shouldnt show their bodies to men because that only leads to misery. Personally I think it does not matter whether women are showing their bodies or not. Men will always wonder what's under these big curtains anyway when they see a set of pretty eyes in there. I cant say I feel good or free in Islamic countries no matter if I dress decent, fully bra-ed, fully covered. Yes Malaysia and Indonesia are a little bit more open to other religions but as a woman travelling in these cultures I always feel a certain heavyness. The moment I step away from my partner I get remarks of men, not the Chinese, but the Muslims (Malay and Indian) and dont feel safe. Same in Indonesia but worse. Going out without my man, I would go dressed in the baggiest clothes I ever wore, show only the minimum of skin, tuk my hair in a big hat and wear big sunglasses, move like a little mouse and would still get harassed. I don't have this feeling in Thailand. Of course there are sexworkers in Malaysia and Indonesia but nowhere to the extent of them in LOS. LOS is loaded with brothels and other sex places for farang and for Thai men so there is no pressure cooker there. I think it is the opposite with Muslims countries where women do dress the Islamic code there is a Big Pressure Cooker going on there - sexual and non-sexual. The Koran BTW can be interpreted in (opposite) several ways about dress code and the abuse of women as second hand citizens. It is the ppl who make these Islamic rules alive and it is the ppl who made this pressure cooker wether it is about 'their' women or about the West.

 

Oh Suadam! Thanks for the lovely pic. Yes arent they beautiful these Malay chickie poohs?! Love the Malay and Singapore Chinese gals too. Quite opionated little tards! But I have something for the Indian women with their sari's. Problem is I cant take my eyes of them....LOL But let's keep our heads in the clouds and not say anything about the class system in India. Or when Indian women wanna divorce after an arranged marriage and look for shelter in a women's home her OWN family (not the inlaws) will come to KILL her since she is a shame to the family. Well I guess that's why most of us get stuck in LOS and never seize to love the country even with all its pitfalls and endless change. Too bad the South is getting more and more tough the Muslim way. Before in LOS you would sometimes not get service in a restaurant since the ppl didn't talk English, now some of the Muslim Thais treat you like you are a disease. You go the restaurant next to these Great and Always Rightful Judges and the ppl are wonderful and very hospitable...This is not gonna give LOS very many good Tourist dollars in the long run. However I can also understand Muslim Southerners dont like all this tourism anymore. A few million tourist came in per year about 15 years ago but now it is 10 million. I dont see very much difference between high and low season anymore especially in BKK where everybody seems to be on a special Quest to find a hotel room all the time. The (short-time) rate that many tourists visit Thailand and the generation X who doesnt give a fuck about getting to know Thai ppl and Thai culture, makes that ppl who work with tourists get burned out quickly that leaves them with a lot of stress and sometimes only dollar signs in their eyes. Sometimes change is not always for the better.

 

The Muslims are intellectual midgits who have no way of defending and obviously loosing an inferior dogma so their only recourse is to kill any body who steps on their toes and makes a cartoon about them.