chuckwoww Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 What interested me most about that Al Jazeera article was the numbers... [color:"blue"] "First generation immigrants constitute about 10% of the Dutch population of 16 million. If second-generation Dutch are included, the immigrant population rises to 19%, which is about three million. Half of them are described as non-Western immigrants. The Muslim population is currently nearing one million people. The largest group comes from former Dutch colonies, such as Indonesia (about 400,000) and the Surinam Republic (about 320,000). Another big group is formed by those who were invited by the Dutch government to fill a labour shortage - Turkish (350,000) and Moroccans (300,000) - in the 1960s and 1970s." [/color] I'm wondering if just getting them out of those ugly burkas will be enough. People can be very stubborn when it comes to religion. When the time comes to round them all up for gassing or deportation will the former colonies get preference over the Turks and Moroccans? Will second generation immigrants be exempt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Hi Chuckie, I have never understood why Indonesians would return to the homeland of their former colonial masters. The history of the Dutch in Indonesia parallels the worst excesses of the British in *any* of their colonial outposts, and the Indonesian struggle for independence was punctuated by brutal Dutch reprisals. Walking through the diorama exhibits under Monas, their monument in Jakarta, you cant help but wonder if things could have been any tougher for Indonesians as the Dutch became increasingly desperate to maintain their grip on power. Ironic that Jakarta has taken on the mantle of 'oppressor' in places like Aceh. I guess Oz/NZ were the luckiest of the British colonies : the Brits learnt from the American and Indian experiences, and handed over control to their descendants (note I didnt say 'the locals') without armed struggle. Cheers, Artie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 It all goes back to colonialism doesn't it Artie? The influx of people from Asia, Africa, India and the Caribbean into Britain was the chickens coming home to roost. Same thing in Holland and France. Now they're stuck with them. Parents, second and third generation aren't going back. Some integrate better than others but it's a slow process. I think the current problems will pass too if some people, on both sides, stop stirring the shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limbo Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Some of the Indonesians who came to Holland were fighting on the Ducth side (Molukkans) and were invited to Holland as a 'reward' with the promise that they could go back later. This returning to the Molucan islands never happened and caused a cocplete new set of problems in Holland in the 7tees when radical Molucans hi jacked trains and occupied various buildings in Holland were innocent people got killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted March 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Aren't the Moluccans Christian? They supported the Dutch because they wanted independence for their islands, not incorporation into Indonesia. Worst thing the Dutch did was handing western New Guinea over to Indonesia. Totally different people and they were promptly exploited by Indonesia -- with Papuans driven from their land and Indonesian settlers brought in. p.s. If you look at even English histories, you'll see the argument that the American Revolution taught the British government never again to push so hard that the colonials felt they had to opt for independence. After 1783, the British govmt would always back off just short of confrontation. Worked quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limbo Posted March 10, 2006 Report Share Posted March 10, 2006 Mac, Not too sure about their religion, but you're right on their reason for fighting along the Dutch side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted March 11, 2006 Report Share Posted March 11, 2006 chuckwoww said:It all goes back to colonialism doesn't it Artie? The influx of people from Asia, Africa, India and the Caribbean into Britain was the chickens coming home to roost. Same thing in Holland and France. Now they're stuck with them. Parents, second and third generation aren't going back. Spot on CW!! I hate to say it, but som nom na to the colonialists. That is my perspective 100%, but it does not help the current residents in that they had nothing to do with it, but are "reaping the benefits". Regards, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted March 11, 2006 Report Share Posted March 11, 2006 Well there's 2 ways of looking at the colonial period. It spread a lot of cultural benefits but of course it never happened because European powers wanted to help the poor savages (I'm not talking about a few missionaries here). The point of colonialism was to increase the wealth of the colonizing powers. Which it did. When the savages finally figured out what was going on they wanted independence. There was a lot of discussion in England during the fifties about whether citizens of former colonies should be allowed to live and work in England. I think the idea then was that they would come to England and drive buses for a year or two then go back. Nobody expected the trickle to turn into a flood. Then the rascals started buying houses and reproducing and bringing their relatives over...they even learned how to fiddle the welfare system just like real English people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.