Zaad Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Well said, Flash Try talking sense into one, just not possible since the very core of their morals and values are just not set to match ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weird Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Affirmative Action covers women, the phsyically handicapped, as well as ethnicity or race but I think you're being intellectually dishonest if the term doesn't first conjure up preferences for blacks primarily. I ask you who made it that way in this thread? Reflection is a wonderful thing. When people speak out against it, would you agree its primarily meant about blacks primarily? Nope, never crossed my mind. Infact in the article what races do they mention? The first thing the vast majority of those who read that article would first see that as a protest against black preferences primarily. Would you agree? The only people I see saying that on this thread are the 2 black people responding. Also, that the extent of the historical discrimination (and blacks being primarily the only ones enslaved)was worse than any other group save possibly the native americans to some, which makes the issue a more sensitive one than discrimination against women or the obese. History is to learn from our mistakes, not repeat them. All discrimination is bad and it seems you equate being 'multi-racial' (is that better? I don't mean to offend if it isn't) discrimination with black discrimination on the same terms and such is your right. Others disagree. I think it depends sometimes on how the person looks. Percieved race. Steroetypes of a race affecting interaction based on the looks of the person. The main difference I see between 'african americans'(seeing as how you want to be politically correct, is that better?) is how often we remind people of our troubles. Taking Thai people for one, they don't like confrontation, so you wouldn't have them posting about racism they feel on a day to day basis about being considered prostitutes. BTW, if you could be as so kind to humor me in an explanation why you refuse to use the term mixed it would be much appreciated. Since I use the term freely I don't see why you seem to be avoiding it at all costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weird Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Disclaimer: This is in no way scientific or representative of the general population so please don't take it as such. ___________________________________________ On a side note I have discussed Affirmative Action with a handful (yes, not many but interesting none-the-less) of people. 2 out of the 3 African American people I talked to actually admitted that they didn't need it and they thought it shouldn't be there but weren't going to complain or make any effort to change it since it benefited them. The 3rd thought it was needed. The one white person I talked to it about thought it was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Disclaimer: This is in no way scientific or representative of the general population so please don't take it as such. ___________________________________________ The one white person I talked to it about thought it was a good idea. He's one white boy that lived thru a little bit of this and it is an idea/plan that outlived it's usefulness a long time ago. Now, being a white male, I have found that I have no rights! Yes, so very true. The Affirmative Action tends to make too many people lazy...hey, why work and compete for it? it will be given out free!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Weird I'll give you the last word after this post. We probably agree on a lot of things but not some. I'll have you take your word for it when you say that you didn't think of blacks when AA was discussed in that article. You didn't answer the question about what people generally would think when reading such articles, rightly or wrongly. AA has been changing (evolving) in some ways. Quotas are now illegal and more and more AA has changed to just letting minorities know about opportunities (job fairs in low income areas, etc., advertise in minority newspaper classifieds). My feeling is that in terms of school admission, income and socio-economic status should mean more. As i said, if the son of Bill Cosby has a B average, he shouldn't be given preference over a poor white, kid who grew up in a trailer park in West Virginia with the same grades. I still think it is hypocritical for some to speak out against affirmative action and not for preferences to rich and famous applicants, or athletes who get in with marginal grades. I think great strides have been made in employment since I graduated from college. There is a lot of equality entry level. I think where racism comes into play is moving up into the higher tier management positions where its all about company politics than ability. I would like to see some minorities do what predecessors like the Jews, Irish and others who were left out of certain feels did and start their own businesses. Not everyone can obviously but the more that do, the more those businesses become mainstream. Jews were kept out of the toniest wall street firms and law firms. Started their own and now those firms (Goldman Sachs in investment banking, Skadden Arps in law) are the top of the heap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 [bTW, if you could be as so kind to humor me in an explanation why you refuse to use the term mixed it would be much appreciated. Since I use the term freely I don't see why you seem to be avoiding it at all costs. I didn't realize I wasn't using it. My fault for not thinking about using mixed as you used it and for some reason I always heard bi-racial or multi-racial when I should have just used the term 'mixed' that you used. Whenever I've heard mixed used, I've heard it been corrected by others to say bi or multi racial. No offense meant, just a lapse on my part. Same with me not caring about using 'African-American' which I disagree with actually. Even though its preferred by 99.99 percent of 'African Americans'. My reasons is that the term black included the entire black diaspora. American blacks, caribbean blacks, african blacks, european born blacks, etc. African American term in america excludes anyone black who is not born in America. I don't mind it being used obviously but I use black myself because its more 'inclusive'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 Disclaimer: This is in no way scientific or representative of the general population so please don't take it as such. ___________________________________________ On a side note I have discussed Affirmative Action with a handful (yes, not many but interesting none-the-less) of people. 2 out of the 3 African American people I talked to actually admitted that they didn't need it and they thought it shouldn't be there but weren't going to complain or make any effort to change it since it benefited them. The 3rd thought it was needed. The one white person I talked to it about thought it was a good idea. In my original post I said I wasn't wholly comfortable with it based on my own pride and not wanting any accomplishment be seen as the result of preference. However, as I said in that post that I think schools should remove all preferences and that all high schools are not of equal quality. Not even close. So if there are going to be no preferences for anyone then we'll need the quality of all grade schools and high schools to be on more equal footing than it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 There are and always will be prejudices within each group. Blacks do it. And whites have done it as well. In Amerian history, western european Jews looked down on east european Jews and wouldn't allow their children to marry them. One of my best friends growing up was of Sicilian ancestry and I recall the parents of girl he liked who was Italian, wouldn't let her go out with him as they were from Milan and looked down on Sicilians. Southern chinese v. chinese from other provinces, and we're all familiari with the Thais treating those from some of the northern provinces. I was fortunate to have parents who only had one rule for any friend I brought home while I was little kid and that was that they behave themselves. I was never told not to play with this kid or that kid because of race or religion. They were the right kinds of christian. They told us to love everyone and it rubbed off on all of my siblings because we all have diverse friends who have only one thing in common. They are good people, which is the ONLY factor one should consider for befriending someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David99UK Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 I think AA is fundamently wrong on principle, but in practice I can understand why in America it was felt neccessary given the history of black folks in the US of A. In my book the most important thing is that everyone has access to opportunity, and where this comes through education that access is never restricted by money. Apart from the benefits to the individual it is also good for society and therefore me! BTW I feel uninhibited to comment on "descrimnation" cos'..............I am 100% an ethnic minority in my own country even through my Ancestory is 100% British and I live in the same place as my ancestors did (in Europe)..........AND I have an official 2nd Class British Passport. And we am not some far flung corner of the former empire. and me and (my fellow "ethnics") are all 100%..........white Do I feel discriminated against? Only when I want to be . It's a funny old world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 In my book the most important thing is that everyone has access to opportunity You said in a sentence that I think I failed to convey in a series of posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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