Gee, commissioned officers can be held responsible now???

[bust]

I guess that is what happens when you recruit from the bottom of the gene pool. I remember my ex was in portland just before the first gulf war. She said there is a marine base there somewhere and met a few marines (could have been army/airforce) Anyway these guys couldn't wait to , their words"shoot some fuckin' arabs" So I guess when your using this type of IQ to carry out operations like Abu Grab somewhere along the way things are going to get messed up. Watch out Flash........one day they might start pointing the finger at your lot. Why is that the buck starts at the top only when it comes for praise.

[elef]

Nope. In the U. S. forces, if you are openly gay -- you still get the boot.

 

(Actually, I'm in favour of letting all the gays and lezzies who want to go to Irag just go. Why should they get off the hook???)

 

In theory you're right but with the help of a good lawyer the white male could claim he was an sexual minority as gay same time as he didn't practise his homosexuality so army couldn't kick him out.

 

Funny thing BTW, homosexuality has always been the part of military culture (as Lawrence of Arabia and Lord Mountbatten) but it has never been openly accepted.

[Flashermac]

I may have mentioned the time a buddy and I were recommended for a medal for hauling in a seriously wounded casualty under fire. Our first sergeant saw it and reportedly said we deserved a Silver Star for it. (No we were going to get that! I was only an E-3 at the time and my buddy an E-4.) The CO screwed around and eventually put us in for an Army Commendation Medal for Valour (lowest bravery award). Even that got promptly kicked back by battalion HQ. I'll never forget the note written on it by an HQ clerk: "Sir, all they done was their duty".

 

A friend in HQ Company told me he'd heard them discussing our award. One of the brass announced, "We've got to save the medals for the officers."

 

My dad told me it was the same in WWII. Every commissioned officer in his battalion got the Croix de Guerre. The enlisted men got nothing.

 

 

[Flashermac]

<< but it has never been openly accepted. >>

 

I trained with a couple of guys who seemed to be a gay couple. They weren't obvious about it, but it certainly seemed suspicious. But as long as they didn't admit it or carry on openly, no problem.

 

Back in the '90s, a lesbian ring was broken up though. Turned out the dykes were actively helping each other get promotions and choice assignments. That pissed off enough people that they did get them kicked out.

 

 

[Old Hippie]

O.k. at the risk of pissing off a few people, by commenting on gays...I will mention that my incredibly gay cousin, and his even gayer boyfriend of 30+ years, are both retired from the Marine corps. Multi tours in Vietnam, and many medals, both have purple hearts (wounded in action) and other awards for serving their country.

 

Point is, they are gay, were gay while in, and claim the service is full of gays, if you know where to look. I frankly could care less who the guy next to me fucks as long as he is a good soldier and saves my ass when/if needed...remember the opening line in boot camp? "...take a good look at the guy next to you...he may save your life..."

 

[Flashermac]

On the other hand, I had one CO in Vietnam who went both ways. He was an absolute f*ck up and a coward on top of that. He finally got relieved for cause. Just shows that being gay or bi doesn't make you a hero or a chickensh*t.

 

Gay guys in the military doesn't bother me, but I've seen plenty of GIs who get hot under the collar at the thought! I presume the ban on being openly gay is for the sake of unity in the ranks.

 

[Flashermac]

General Wants Gay Ban Lifted

 

Military.com

3 January 2007

 

In an op-ed published in Tuesday's New York Times, John M. Shalikashvili, retired Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, says Congress should give "serious reconsideration" to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," the ban on openly lesbian, gay and bisexual military personnel.

 

Shalikashvili, who supported the ban on open service in 1993, writes that "I now believe that if gay men and lesbians served openly in the United States military, they would not undermine the efficacy of the armed forces," and goes on to say that "Our military has been stretched thin by our deployments in the Middle East, and we must welcome the service of any American who is willing and able to do the job."

 

"'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is out of step with both the American public and those within our armed forces," said C. Dixon Osburn, executive director of Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN). "The counsel of military leaders increasingly supports repeal of the law. Congress must, as General Shalikashvili urges, consider the overwhelming evidence of the past fourteen years. If they do, the clear answer is that we must lift the ban."

 

Shalikashvili, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs from 1993 to 1997, joins other senior retired military officers who have called for repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

 

In May 2006, Lieutenant General Claudia Kennedy, USA (Ret.), the first female three-star officer in Army history, called the law "a hollow policy that serves no useful purpose."

 

Lieutenant General Daniel W. Christman, former superintendent of West Point, recently told The New York Times that "It is clear that national attitudes toward this issue have evolved considerably in the last decade. This has been led by a new generation of service members who take a more relaxed and tolerant view toward homosexuality."

 

Retired Admiral John Hutson, who currently serves as Dean of Franklin Pierce Law School, also recently wrote that "It would be a great tragedy if we didn't take advantage of (the) chance to correct a flawed policy."

 

In 2003, two retired generals and an admiral 'came out' in the New York Times, and in November 2006 fourteen senior retired military officers urged the First Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn the ban. They wrote that the law "undermines the military's ability to fulfill its primary mission of providing national security by discouraging the enlistment of gay persons qualified to serve their country and by expelling from the military those who have served with honor."

 

In today's op-ed, General Shalikashvili writes that "Last year I held a number of meetings with gay soldiers and marines, including some with combat experience in Iraq, and an openly gay senior sailor who was serving effectively as a member of a nuclear submarine crew. These conversations showed me just how much the military has changed, and that gays and lesbians can be accepted by their peers."

 

A December 18th Zogby poll also found that 73% of military personnel polled were comfortable with lesbians and gays.

 

"General Shalikashvili's statement is the first by a Joint Chiefs Chairman to call for repeal, and as such is enormously significant," said Osburn. "The Pentagon has dismissed more than 11,000 men and women under this law. It is clear that enforcement of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is arbitrary. We continue to lose critical personnel who happen to be gay. As General Shalikashvili points out, continuing to keep this law on the books is detrimental to our national security."