Iraq was all over oil!

[Flashermac]

It does seem as if 9/11 was an excuse. GWB could probably have found another one.

 

 

[Steve]

It would have to be one helluva reason. The national mood was perfect for him with Iraq. If there was no 911 and Bush brought in the same 'evidence', I can't see how congress would authorize him to go in. No one is that good. Not even Karl Rove. Even with 911 fresh in everyone's minds it was hotly debated and was a close call. Bush may have wanted to go in but I can't see how he could have without 911 happening and with the evidence he had to support it. Way too flimsy.

 

Sooner or later, there will come an event where europe will ask America to join or lead. Despite what the masses think, the governments of the EU and America know they are tied at the hip globally. Too many mutual interests. The two areas are tied economically to the hip. The American market has been a major source of revenue for europe for years now, carrying a massive trade surplus here. Yes, china and other areas are reducing it but it would take years and years to replace the American market. Militarily we are connected by NATO although that is reduced as well, its still significant enough.

 

There will come another situation like Bosnia. Europe wanted America to join. The amerian public was opposed to it and England played the 'special relationship' card (that America does as well when it needs to like in Iraq) and Clinton went in saying it was 'in our national security interest' to do so which is complete bullshit of course but I say it to emphasize how important the heads of each state takes the 'special relationship'. Clinton risked political fall out over it. Just like Blair did with us. The problem for the Brits is that we take advantage of the relationship a bit more than they do. Admittedly, its a bit one sided most of the time since we're the ones who seem to get ourselves into the most trouble. Its a very very serious relationship though. My older brother was in the military during the Falklands and said we were secretly meeting British supply ships in international waters so their supply route wouldn't be as long and provided any and all satelite information they needed and I've heard it said we applied immense political and economic presure on the Argies since a lot of their loans we either had or guaranteed.

 

France, Germany, Italy as well have strong ties to us in one way or another and as I said above, the nations are all tied to the hip. Competitors in some ways, as in business and arms supplies to 3rd world despots but more partners than anything else formally or informally.

 

You're stuck with us guys. :grin:

 

 

[bust]

I think America took the lead a long time ago and the EU is either with them or against them. Based on their arguement of liberating the Iraqi people the US have forfeited their right to turn their back on the next Rwanda.

[Flashermac]

I've heard some tales about British SAS training American Special Forces officers in jungle warfare in Malaysia during the VN War. The Yanks wore British uniforms and were told to keep their mouths shut around outsiders so their accent wouldn't betray them.

 

 

[Flashermac]

I think America took the lead a long time ago and the EU is either with them or against them. Based on their arguement of liberating the Iraqi people the US have forfeited their right to turn their back on the next Rwanda.

 

 

How about Burma?

 

 

[bust]

The world has turned their back on Burma not just the US.

[Flashermac]

But why? Not enough gas or oil to interest them? Sounds like the whole world is fahked.

 

 

[Steve]

EVERYONE had turned their back on Rwanda, worst of all the French since I think they had influence there. Europe and America are just as guilty.

 

EU and America are equally as guilty for not doing anything about the genocide in Darfur.

 

Lots of blame to go around in a lot of places right now.

[bust]

When atrocities like Rwanda and Darfur happen, most of the world has blood on their hands. These are pretty fucked up times we live in.

[Flashermac]

If I remember right, Rwanda had been adminstered by Belgium. It was part of German East Africa, until after the Allies "liberated" it at the end of WWI -- and made it their own.