1:20 a.m. at Nana on a Friday Night

[bibblies]

If one guy comes to me and offers to bag that girl and bring her back within 2 hours and she is fine with it there is space for discussions depending on how the girls situation is that day, but allowing it in general kills your business in the long run!

2 hours? You're thinking that most guys wouldn't have her back within 2 for a S/T?!

 

I'd have her back within 1 hour at the most without even being asked to hurry and I suspect most other guys would too.

 

Like cent, this kind of 'can't pay bar until 12.30' bullshit pisses me off.

 

You're basing such policies on fears that I think are way overdone. Just because you like to lounge around and relax with a girl over hours and it would annoy you to be hurried doesn't mean there aren't lots of guys perfectly willing and happy to have a girl back in 1 hour or even 30 minutes if necessary.

 

This system can and has worked in gogos for years. It's partly regulated by the girl's desire to get back to the bar quickly 90% of the time and partly by a guy's desire to get to another bar to find the next girl.

 

If more bars keep doing this 'can't barfine a stunner before 12.30' bollocks because they don't trust the girl or customer to get back quickly, it fucks up the evening up until that point of prowlers like me. What are we supposed to do before that? Just settle for fucking the ugly ones? And then you've got a problem of a big build up at 12.30 - a queue of angry horny impatient guys all wanting the same girls!

 

Why not just have a strict policy of no L/Ts before a certain time? A polite notice saying S/T is a max of 2hours before a certain time?

[simie]

Bibblies, i think you are still giving too much ground to the bar owners? As far as i'm concerned you pay bar and the girl goes with you then. Defeats the whole object of a bar fine if there is a time imposed on it. If you go LT then she's out of there untill the next day and if you go ST then she's out of there untill you have finished and then up to her whether or not she returns to the bar. As i mentioned in a previous post if the owners are worried about their showgirls then have a rule that they cannot be barfined at all and customers need to make their own arrangements after the bar closes. But i'm totally opposed to barfine curfews for the ordinary dancers. I can see how the bar owners these days have a problem getting enough decent looking dancers to still have a reasonable selection after a number have been barfined. But i think that a lot of this is caused by the simple fact thatt there are now too many gogo bars for the market, particularly in Pattaya.

Simie.

[bibblies]

It doesn't defeat the whole point of a bar fine if a time's imposed on it. Don't kid yourself -there IS already a maximum time imposed on a bar fine - 24 hours.

 

To be frank, the point of a bar-fine is to fuck a girl. Apart from the pussies (imo) who pay bar and don't fuck them, everyone else has an additional contract of ShortTime or LongTime. The bar-fine's just the agent's fee. So, really when you're paying a bar-fine, it's always S/T or L/T.

 

For me, it's nearly always S/T, S/T, up until about 1 or 2AM and then we're maybe thinking L/T.

 

Now, if there are some time-wasters who are taking so long that they're skewing the economics of the system so much that the bar owners are thinking that certain girls shouldn't be barfined, THEY should be punished alone. The bar owners shouldn't punish the short-timers who continue to put the girls quickly and efficiently back in the bar.

 

I think the long-timers are being selfish (maybe 'protectionist') if they don't see the economics and the point of the short-timers. They don't care about the short-timers because it's not their thing and they don't think they should pay more even though they obviously take up more of the girl's time (especially from the bar-owner's point of view).

 

If the economics comes to that, it's better there should be a choice. Pre 12.30, make it under 2 hours, after that it can be L/T.

 

It's always better to give people a choice than to restrict everyone based on one group's tastes. :thumbup:

[simie]

Bibblies, and interesting point of view but i can't say i totally agree. Firstly its rather obvious that the barfine only applies to the day in question, so i don't see how the 24 hour business has any relevence? I still maintain that the barfine is to release the girl from the bar, so any curfew is a bit of a piss take on the part of the bar IMHO. However i'm not totally unsympathetic to the owners problems, so perhaps some sort of tier system could be put in place e.g. 600 baht before 10pm, 400 baht before midnight and then 200 baht after that? I totally disagree with your suggestion about ST only before 12.30 or any other time. IMHO once the barfine is paid its between the girl and the punter whether she comes back or not that night and bugger all to do with the bar owner.

Simie.

[Khun_Kong]

So, what's the explanation of a girl being BFed, going back to the bar and then a different punter having to pay again? That tells me that every reason given so far is bullshit. It is simply another way to raise income, which is fine. Just don't dance around the real reason for BFs.

[simie]

KK, you raise a very interesting point and i totally agree with you. Once the bar fine has been paid its been paid for that night as far as i'm concerned as you say for another punter to pay it again is basicly a money making scam. Of course the problem is that punter B is not likely to know that the bar fine has already been paid by punter A, as its extra money for the owner and the girl get her cut so is not that lkely to be bothered either. So in reality its hard to see how this can be prevented?

Simie.

[ChristianTroy]

KK and Simie

 

that was actually my point in my answer to Cent!

The girl is barfined, the salary is compensated and if she would return to the bar I would at least cheat one of the customers! I am not a fan of ST barfine and I am not a fan of double barfine. It is not going to happen in my bar. She can return and make drinks, fine but I am not employing them to be ruthless fuck machines! I know too much and I have seen to much as I would know what it does to the girls. There is also the fact that a girl might not be very energetic with her second customer, the customer pays big bucks for the barfine and he deserves a fresh girl!

 

The tier system is in place, a regular lady dancer such as we know them from BKK can go whenever barfine is offered, some of the show girls can go too. The Top girls need to stay around a little because they are the face of the bar.

 

I said that before, the shows start at 10pm, I can't let all my girls go at 10:30pm that is dull and stupid and if the customer doesn't understand that than he should refrain from going to a show bar where they all have the same policy! Let's say I have 100 customers sitting in the bar where the most just come to watch the shows, many come with their girls etc... how silly would it be if I had to cancel the shows because I have no girls anymore???? How many of these 100 people would return?

 

Again this is all very theoretic, because the girls handle the situation by themselves. If they get asked to early she tells her customer, "Okay I go with you but I have to make 1 or 2 more shows" I haven't really seen someone complaining over that yet! If you tell the guy it is a bar policy he might be pissed. Sometimes it is not so much the policy it is more the sound and the tone of things!

 

 

 

[Hardy641]

I think by discussing the barfine system, you wonâ??t get to the root of the issue. The problem is that many bars facing today is that they donâ??t have enough suitable girls to lure customers into their premises, keep them there and make them return the next day. Many girls dancing in Pattayaâ??s gogo bars are just second class; stretch marks, not attractive, fat, too old, full of tattoos and worst of all having a shitty attitude. No barfine regulation will ever solve this problem. A curfew until 12:30 wonâ??t work at all as it pisses of many punters who like an early shag. The bars in Soi Pattayaland 2 tried it 3-4 years ago â?? today the street is dead. But it does not only pisses of punters but also girls who are loosing potential customers - after all they still make their earnings mainly by going with customers.

There are not fewer girls around â?? in fact there are much more than 5 years ago. Aside of the steady growing number of gogo bars, the main reason for the decline of quality girls in gogo bars comes from a drastic change of method from the girls to catch their â??honeyâ??.

While 5 years ago most stunners wanted to work in a big gogo bar, because there she made the most cash that time. Today however, most stunners are working as freelancers in the various discos around Pattaya. Just have a look at Marine, Tonyâ??s or Lucifer! These places are packed with girls during the whole year. These girls not only enjoy more freedom (and Thai girls love freedom) but they also make more money. There is a trend that more and more younger guys are visiting Pattaya. They want to rather â??seduceâ?? a girl with drinks and sweet talk than just â??buyingâ?? her out of a bar. I know many girls even go free with them in the first place and later turn them into their sponsors after they returned to Farangland. Thatâ??s when they really make money, as these guys have fallen for them. Some have 4-5 sponsors simultaneously. Thus, today you will find stunners rather in the freelance places than in a gogo bar. It would be interesting how the bar owners will counter this emerging trend. Bar fine curfew wonâ??t help at all on contrary they will be rather counterproductive.

I personally find it pathetic when an average looking gogo bar dancer quotes 2000+ THB and justifies her demand just with â??I work a gogoâ?? â?¦..

 

[ChristianTroy]

I hate to contradict but since the high season is over I find Pattaya has a stunning quality of girls! Especially the entire month of may surprises me a lot! I find a handful of good girl in nearly every bar except a few which really suck!

 

The most girls I meet at Marine or Marine 2 or gogo or beer bar girls after work and saying they would be hotter is not really fair since in the gogo bars they are naked on display and in the clubs they can easily cover their weaker parts of the body! What I find attractive is the mass of sexy girls, it is overwhelming and you are probably more forgiving to flaws when there are 400 girls instead of 10 girls on the stage!

 

What is true is that the real hot stunners are now splitted on almost 50 bars instead of just 20 bars! Freelancers loose 8k to 15k salary and aprox 10k to 25k in lady drinks and on top of that they get payed less for a lay! Is it only because they are lazy or is it because they cannot be seen in the bars anymore because they already have a sponsor? I actually cannot remember 1 freelancer that wasn't married or had "boyfriend england" Saying that they are making more money is with all due respect absurd except you count in the sponsor money which isn't exclusive to Freelancers, a gogo girl with a sponsor makes more, this argument is not correct!

 

The bar fine curfew for show girls is a policy that applies to all bars in Pattaya that feature shows, it is nothing new, this policy exists since show girls exist and the reason why the bars at Soi Pattayaland are going down the isle is because the location sucks. Why going to a street with 6 bars when 150 meters a way there is a street with almost 50 bars, food and entertainment complexes!

 

I agree that it is pathetic when an average girl quotes 2000 baht and justifies it with being a gogo girl, on the other hand it is pathetic to let a girl quote you in Pattaya, because the rate is UP TO YOU and it is also pathetic to wanna go home with an average girl, lol

 

Pattaya is basically so relaxed about rates and the girls are so easy too handle, before, during and after the shag I don't let this count to be an issue, that is a homemade problem of those who NEED to know upfront how much it will cost them!

[Hardy641]

[color:gray]The most girls I meet at Marine or Marine 2 or gogo or beer bar girls after work and saying they would be hotter is not really fair since in the gogo bars they are naked on display and in the clubs they can easily cover their weaker parts of the body![/color]

I don't think that the girls in the freelance places are mainly gogo bar girls. First most gogo bars close at 3am only, so the girls have hardly time to hit the spots (except for Marine 2) and/or most are too lazy/tired anyway.

 

[color:gray]What is true is that the real hot stunners are now splitted on almost 50 bars instead of just 20 bars! Freelancers loose 8k to 15k salary and aprox 10k to 25k in lady drinks and on top of that they get payed less for a lay![/color]

Even 10K would mean that a girl has to make 200 drinks assuming she gets 50THB per drink, which isn't always a case. I don't think that many will achieve this number let alone 500 drinks to get 25K. Also if a girl has 3-4 sponsors she easily makes 30K - 40K doing nothing. For a poor ex-farm girl this is enormous! As these girls are very lazy, they won't be motivated to work in gogo bar every day and let some guys touching them for lady drink in return - just to collect another 15K to 20K. They prefer to party with their friends and will find some stupid farangs who will finance it anyway and only if they really like the guys they will go ST or LT. Often they just disappear after a while with 'I back ...go toilet'.

 

[color:gray]I actually cannot remember 1 freelancer that wasn't married or had "boyfriend england" Saying that they are making more money is with all due respect absurd except you count in the sponsor money which isn't exclusive to Freelancers, a gogo girl with a sponsor makes more, this argument is not correct![/color]

For Gogo bar girls it is much harder to find a sponsor due to the commitment to the bar and the daily barfine that will have to be paid. It is much more expensive to take a gogo dancer for a 2 weeks trip to Samui/Phuket. However, the main reason is the mind set of the punters, especially of younger guys - while bar girls are clearly prostitutes working in a bar, the freelancers who always studies, or works in beauty salon, Big C... are considered as 'normal' girls. Believe me a lot of girls play this mind game perfectly these days. And if a gogo bar girls really manages to get a few sponsors I guarantee you she soon will be an ex gogo dancer! Don't underestimate their laziness.