1:20 a.m. at Nana on a Friday Night

[chelseafan]

"Pattaya offers 9 times more girls for the half of the price,"

 

9 times more girls in Pattaya than in BKK

 

CT,

 

Do have any idea of the whole spectrum of the sex industry in BKK before coming up with such a suspicious statement ?

 

 

Gotta agree with CT on this one,not saying its 9 times, but its certainly a much higher proportion in PTTY than BKK.

 

[ChristianTroy]

Cent I have read your ideas very carefully (twice) and I know it is coming from a man with good ideas!

 

Here is my thought on this! I have too less of a clue about the BKK Gogo customs as I could have a decently developed opinion how to raise profit and how to get customers coming early! My gogo knowledge is exclusively about Pattaya where ST is rather the minority and the girls usually don't return to the bar once they got barfined!

 

Here a couple of things which are basically the same in BKK and PTY.

Your idea of staggered experiences is good but doesn't work because girls never attend in time and by never I mean never. I know there has been made attempts like that en masse and the final conclusion was not to let them go before midnight or later! The girl out of the bar is worth nothing, even when she returns after 2 hours, these 2 hours I get 1000 baht for her and loose 3000 baht.

 

Cheaper drinks and happy hours seem not to work here in Pattaya too well. I have discussed that here with my Partner who has the highest figures with his major bar in the city and very average figures on one of his other bars. People come in early and get a drink for half of the price, the bar isn't running on full temperature at this time which has no commercial effect whatsoever! Telling the girls to come in way earlier makes them scream for more salary which is impossible! Knowing these girls rhythm you know it won't work, they sleep long, need to get their hair and make up done there is basically no free time, they will be exhausted or pissed and leave! It is the ugly ones who come early because they depend on the salaries. The stunners know what they are worth and they know if you tighten the rules thy will do the same money in a bar where the rules are still loose! These girls are no machines and letting them go ST 3 times a day will burn them out in a very short amount of time. I know there are owners who don't give a shit about their girls but if you run a bar like that you have some responsibilities for the girls and have to protect them from themselves sometimes.

 

A decent way is to keep the in the bar to 12:30 or so, if someone wants to pay barfine he can do that upfront and she will leave with him when he returns or he chooses to stick around and those who come in to have 1 drink and barfine are not your most appreciated customers. A bar is selling drinks, not pussies, the barfine is supposed to compensate her salary but it doesnt compensate the loss of income and don't forget that if she is a star girl 80% of the guys come to see her and not the leftovers. That's why you simply can't care about that horny impatient bloke that can't wait to hit the sack with her, you have the responsibility to make the majority of people happy! The girl and the impatient bloke probably have different plans than the bar owner but I rather say sorry to one guy instead to 100 guys!

 

 

[Wanderer]

That would go way too deep into the details to lay it all down but scratching on the surface a little should be okay! These factory jobs you mention create exports goods in large amounts, I think only 15% of them stay in the country. Thailand exports goods worth round about 110 million USD per year and the biggest part of it is Rice and Textiles!

...

 

In the interest of accuracy, I found this Bangkok Bank site that show Thailand's exports in 2006 was 4,939 billion baht. isn't that 110 billion USD? Also says that the biggest single export is Computers and parts. Principal manufacturing makes up over 77% of the total.

Other then that, I agree Thailand needs to address some issues real soon.

[ChristianTroy]

Do have any idea of the whole spectrum of the sex industry in BKK before coming up with such a suspicious statement ?

 

It is always the same dog who barks, Kojis!

Huge spectrum... I agree and a freaking wide areal which takes you an hour at least to get from one end to the other! It is a matter of capacity obviously! Break it down to the hookers on a salary in real bars and forget the street dogs and you get the idea that 9 times is rather an understatement!

 

In Pattaya you have things compressed on a very small areal.

 

Soi 6 has aprox 1500 ST girls available during a day, Walking Street inkl it's beer bars and sois aprox 5000 girls, and now take the aprx 200 beer bars with 20 girls average (low figure) and you get another 4000 girls. That is round about 11000 girls you can see and visit within 10 minutes no matter where you are! Not counting Naklua, Not counting Jomtjien and not counting the freelancers, only counting the hot spots! A guy that works for Pattaya News once claimed it might be 18,000 working girls between 3rd Road and Beach Road areal! I have my doubts about this number but 15,000 seems to be a realistic figure!

 

I am sure an expat can find the same amount of girls in BKK but a tourist can't, he is going to the hot spots and deals with round about 2500 girls in the bars and I think I am very generous here!

 

And this is exactly the reason why I am saying the people are stupid when they are coming to BKK when all they want is THE GIRLS!!!! If you come for all sorts of entertainment, fine BKK rocks Pattaya into the ground but when it is about girls Pattaya is winning the battle and is also way cheaper and easier to access! This wasn't a statement which city is better it is about pure facts where to get what in larger amount for less money! Pattaya can't compete on a city level with Bangkok and your Cambodia statement was another typical Kojis comment, how does that fit into the discussion?? Have you ever been to Cambodia except for getting your passport stamped?? If yes how could you even bring that up? I see no similarities either with BKK or PTY!!!

 

HH statement that the girls in PTY would be all ugly is of course very Hugh Hoyish

 

 

[ChristianTroy]

got me there!! Billion not Million of course!

[ChristianTroy]

CT-

 

"....a girl that quotes me 5k gets my drink in her face and I make her boss fire her sorry ass!"

 

You actually throw the drink in her face?

 

Of course not, it was figure speech, why would I show any aggressions towards a girl that is trying to make money? If it would come down to a quote like that I would laugh my ass off and probably drink her drink myself, lol

I would definitely talk with her boss about it because she is hurting the bar! When the punter goes home he doesn't rant about the bitch that tried to rip him off, he is ranting about the bar where it happened!

 

 

 

[whitelotuslane]

I find this discussion highly amusing.

 

The one consistent element seems to be a negative 'things are going down the drain' kind of sentiment, but in half the posts this is because "girls are charging more and beer gets more expensive" and in the other half it's because "Thailand is getting poorer, can't compete with China, etc."

 

Some people even argue both in the same post.

 

Well let me tell you, you can't have both negatives; Either Thailand is deflating like a balloon with reduced competitiveness and confidence since the coup in which case at some point all hell will break loose and girls will be begging to sleep with you for a shower and a bowl of Mama noodle, OR Thailand will continue to develop and as it develops education improves, birth rate goes down, fewer girls become prostitutes, but the ones that do would rightly command 5000 baht a pop.

 

Now, depending on how much you care about Thailand versus how much you care about yourself and your lifestyle you can choose to prefer one or the other, but the bottom line is that you can't have both things happen at the same time.

 

So pick a preferred doomsday scenario to whine about, and be happy with your choice.

[Hardy641]

You are absolutely right for the Western world. However according to common Thai logic you have to increase prices in order to maintain your revenue if business goes slow and the flows of money are drying up.

Luckily sooner or later the western demand and supply logic will prevail. It is just a question of time.

[kojis]

Ct,

 

"It is always the same dog who barks, Kojis!"

 

As I see you feel the need to make this one personal, and preffered to omit the following post echoing mine...Well...I thought you would be thankful if someone tried and screw the bulb you use as a brain tighter... considering how concerned you appear about brain tumours...

 

Yeah... been to Cambodia a bunch of times... as well as Burma... lots of hookers... dirt cheap...

 

Tourists weren't implied in your first post considering the relative numbers of girls in PTY and BKK ...

 

Many people want to have fun -with girls as well- avoiding such a sad views you get in Lower Suk and Pattaya... which is easy in BKK, with areas of very different styles that also offer ladies (oh yeah... i've also lived in BKK a few years -before leaving to better skies... and before you ask...)

 

I agree though, if one comes to BKK for the kind of pleasures one finds in Lower suk or CowBoy, Pattaya is likely a better spot at the moment, and the new airport is also pointing to that direction. I'm sure you're having a life that suits you just fine out there

[Central Scrutinizer]

CT,

 

'Cent I have read your ideas very carefully (twice) and I know it is coming from a man with good ideas!'

 

Thanks.

 

'Here is my thought on this! I have too less of a clue about the BKK Gogo customs as I could have a decently developed opinion how to raise profit and how to get customers coming early!'

 

Well, BKK and Pattaya are two different places with different customer bases I do think. But, it is all about the customer and many things that work in one city can cross over to the next, not all, but many I'd think. Especially the 'customer care' I expressly cited which you made no mention of here in reply. That will be a concern for all customers in both cities.

 

"My gogo knowledge is exclusively about Pattaya'

 

My knowledge extends to both places, fairly equally I think. I've spent much time in both over the years.

 

'where ST is rather the minority'

 

Really? Then this has changed. Years back ST was probably the higher percentage of BFs in Pattaya. Why would this change?

 

'and the girls usually don't return to the bar once they got barfined!'

 

So there is no policy that once a ST is over the girl needs to return to the bar? All up to her if she wants to get another ST? This then is likely the reason BFs have increased so much the past few years I'd think.

 

"Here a couple of things which are basically the same in BKK and PTY.

Your idea of staggered experiences is good but doesn't work because girls never attend in time and by never I mean never.'

 

And they are 'docked' pay when late, right? Maybe if the bar owners paid the girls more they'd figure it worth their while to be on time? Or maybe at least then the barowners would have more pay to cut and save on employee pay?

 

'I know there has been made attempts like that en masse and the final conclusion was not to let them go before midnight or later!'

 

So the bar owners do meet and discuss these things and try to come to some mutual agreement and impliment these ideas in all their bars? The biggest problem I see is that many bars have different policies. I know competition is strong, but it really is to their benefit, all the bars, if they can somehow get agreement and stick together on things like this.

 

'The girl out of the bar is worth nothing, even when she returns after 2 hours, these 2 hours I get 1000 baht for her and loose 3000 baht.'

 

How do you lose 3000 baht in the two hours she is gone? And how do you make 1000? From the BF and the drinks/lady drinks?

 

'Cheaper drinks and happy hours seem not to work here in Pattaya too well.'

 

Why not? Cheaper drinks will bring in the customers who are drinkers. I see it all the time. And would make that decision myself if one bar offered a beer at a discount while the bar next door didn't, all things being fairly equal that is.

 

'I have discussed that here with my Partner who has the highest figures with his major bar in the city and very average figures on one of his other bars.'

 

So, what is different from his 'high' grossing bar from his 'average' grossing bar? One is doing something right if this is so. What is the difference between the two? Location? Better looking girls? Better prices? Etc.

 

'People come in early and get a drink for half of the price, the bar isn't running on full temperature at this time which has no commercial effect whatsoever!'

 

How can it have no commercial effect if it does bring in customers? Half off pricing is silly. The point of discounting is to entice the customer in, while STILL making some profit that makes sense for the bar owners. Making 20% profit from certain drinks is better than no profit at all due to not having customers in the early opening hours of the day. Right? Some profit is better than none, as long as it is paying (helping) the bills. Otherwise why even open at all? You might as well open at 8 or 10 instead when the punters are out and about in force. The thing is to make the bar attractive to those that prefer to start earlier in the evening so you can make a decent profit off the sales in a larger quantity at a lesser offered price. Plus full bars attract customers better than near empty bars. Punters are curious and will go to a bar that looks like it is doing well, to see WHY it is doing well and not empty like the bars nearby. You can also factor in the 'herd' mentality of human beings at times.

 

'Telling the girls to come in way earlier makes them scream for more salary which is impossible!'

 

Not way earlier, and not all of them. And not every day! And if you need to pay them more to make more money (especially due to earlier closings imposed by the government) than I would think that would be a smart thing to do, unless their demands were totally unreasonable and their earlier arrival times didn't make a difference. A smart owner will experiment a bit and see what works, what makes a difference, and adjust things accordingly to improve his profits. And, this might not work so well in Pattaya, but would likely work in Bangkok. Pattaya always did stay open later and go by different rules than Bangkok does. You did say your friend has a Bangkok bar, right? So all this I have written is not about just Pattaya, but is also about Bangkok bars as well. Like you say, what works in Bangkok may well not work in Pattaya.

 

'Knowing these girls rhythm you know it won't work, they sleep long, need to get their hair and make up done there is basically no free time, they will be exhausted or pissed and leave!'

 

Oh, I understand their rhythms. Believe me I do. I also understand they'll try to get away with whatever they can to do less work and do what they want to do and not what is best for the business they work for. Human nature and BG nature. It's a fine balancing act to keep them all happy, but some places seem to do so. What is their secret?

 

And I don't buy much of this you are saying. What time do the bars you are basing your opinions on open? And if the owners stick together I don't see how the girls could just walk away from one bar and go to the next, as the owners, if they were smart, would/could/should refuse to hire the ones that did this. But from what I have seen the barowners are their own worst enemies at times by being greedy and a bit stupid letting the girls control them in this way. They give up their power by not sticking together in certain things where they should, as it would benefit them all if they did.

 

'It is the ugly ones who come early because they depend on the salaries. The stunners know what they are worth and they know if you tighten the rules thy will do the same money in a bar where the rules are still loose!'

 

Exactly, but the good bars they, the top performers/stunners want to work in, the popular bars where the punters go, the places that get them the highest salaries and best percentages for their drinks and barfines are the ones that should be sticking together in these matters. It is in their best interests to do so.

 

'These girls are no machines and letting them go ST 3 times a day will burn them out in a very short amount of time.'

 

So, what are you saying? Are these girls that much different than the 'stars' of a few years ago that did/do many STs in a day? I never said they were machines, but this argument sounds a bit silly to me, as I have seen many stunners that have done multiple STs over the years. Unless it is true as you say that STs are no longer the way in Pattaya. Of course LT is the way the stunners usually go, as it pays better for less work, and it gains them presents and such extras they don't get from the bar.

 

'I know there are owners who don't give a shit about their girls but if you run a bar like that you have some responsibilities for the girls and have to protect them from themselves sometimes.'

 

Yes, but these same girls usually do not care a whit for the owners concerns and problems as well. Mutual loathing at times I think. And yes, the bar owners need to take care of their girls, but not to the point of letting them run the business and doing whatever they want with no concern for the owners position. But, we'll see how it goes once you open your bar. It'll be interesting to see how your ideas are put into practice and how long they stay in practice.

 

'A decent way is to keep the in the bar to 12:30 or so',

 

Do you really think punters will all wait until 12:30 to BF the girl of their choice? Unworkable in my mind. If you just want to run an agogo and make money off the drinks then just open a strip club where the girls are not barfinable until after work, when they can go with whomever they choose without anyone even paying a barfine. You can't have both worlds. You need a decent compromise that works. No BF until 12:30 I just do not see working. This is why I said STs are okay, LTs after midnight. That is the compromise that would work. Fucked if I would pay a barfine and then wait until 12:30 to have the lass go with me. What, she stays and works for you dancing and making you drink money until 12:30 when I can then take her away? Why pay a barfine then? I might as well wait until she is off work and avoid the BF all together. See, here you are thinking like a business owner with no real thought for the customer. You want it all! Why should I wait if I pay the BF? What if I want to take her to a disco before partying back in the room later? It is not only about the sex man, it is also about the compainionship the girl provides. ST is a different matter, but to wait all night once paying the BF for LT would be BS most punters would not put up with.

 

'if someone wants to pay barfine he can do that upfront and she will leave with him when he returns or he chooses to stick around and those who come in to have 1 drink and barfine are not your most appreciated customers.'

 

They may not be YOUR most appreciated customers as a bar owner, but that is what is being sold. If you want to run a bar then run a bar. But a Thai agogo is selling more than beers and shots man. And, in Pattaya at least, I see mainly tourists who spend a lot in the bar before ever barfining. Maybe the expat local retirees on a budget buy one beer, make their choice, and leave with her. But I don't think that is that much of a problem there really in the Walking Street gogos and the main larger agogos. At least from my observations.

 

'A bar is selling drinks, not pussies,'

 

BS. Then sell drinks and not pussy. The pussy is the draw. Without the pussy you are just another gin mill with nice ambieance and music and pretty waitresses and good beer. If that was true then just hire the girls to dance and stuff/forget the barfines. No need to sell pussy then, as you are selling their dancing as the draw, but barowners here want it all. Usually due to lack of forethought, good business sense, and the fact of the matter is they make money off selling pussy.

 

'the barfine is supposed to compensate her salary but it doesnt compensate the loss of income and don't forget that if she is a star girl 80% of the guys come to see her and not the leftovers.'

 

Yes, true. And if that is so then pay her well for her beauty and dancing abilities and forget selling her pussy and making money off it. If that is as you say then there is no need to let her go during her shift, and if you pay her well enough and are making that much money off her presence in your bar she would not even need to go fuck men for money. Like I said, the bar owners want it all. They want to pay small money for the girls to dance, yet whine when they go out on a BF that they have no 'draw' for their booze selling. If they paid the dancers well enough there is no need to let them go if that is what is bringing in the money. Right? No need to exploit the girls at all then, right? Just pay them to dance naked, be ptretty and friendly, and rake in all that money from selling drinks! But, I see this as BS.

 

'That's why you simply can't care about that horny impatient bloke that can't wait to hit the sack with her, you have the responsibility to make the majority of people happy!'

 

The majority of the guys are in Thailand, and in Pattaya particularly, exactly for that! What? You think they are there for the bar and the drinks? They can go to bars and drink back in London, or Boston, or where ever they are from. It is the fact they can take a girl from the bar and pay to fuck her is why they are there. Don't forget that CT. Your bar, no matter how fine, fun, and cool, is merely the forum where the guys can go look and take that pussy home to their beds to screw. Forget that this is truly your customer base here as a barowner in Thailand and you will fail miserably.

 

'The girl and the impatient bloke probably have different plans than the bar owner but I rather say sorry to one guy instead to 100 guys!'

 

Which is why I gave my ideas as to how you can get customers and keep customers as a gogo bar in Thailand. Seems many barowners do not realize this and forget exactly what sort of business they are actually running here. Say sorry to that one guy and all those 'one guys' will give your bar a miss and go where they can drink cheaper, get good treatment from the staff and owner, and, get what they truly came for, their barfine of the day, or two hour ST at least. Forget that at your own peril CT. Do you really think the other 99 guys out of the hundred are there in Pattaya for other reasons?

 

Just some friendly discussion here folks. I'll see you next month CT and we can talk over a beer or two one night. Breakfast on me this time. :thumbup:

 

Cent