Dumsoda Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I'll see you next month CT and we can talk over a beer or two one night. Breakfast on me this time. :thumbup: Cent Hey dude, if it's the very end of the month, count me in as well.... The 3 muskateers do breakfast....again!! I'll let you know the dates, but at this stage I reckon about 28th.....this month got canned due to China & US trips Cheers DC & "Friend" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 As I see you feel the need to make this one personal, and preffered to omit the following post echoing mine...Well...I thought you would be thankful if someone tried and screw the bulb you use as a brain tighter... considering how concerned you appear about brain tumours... Calling you a dog is the perfect description as you have just confirmed it again, Napoleon, you bark and bark, you are offending people, you are arrogant and your tone is really disturbing and you can't make a point without trying to insult someone or be at least provocative . It is you who is connecting peoples intelligence with the place where they live! Personal judgments all the time! The 2nd of your 2 posts above were nothing but silly and you also seem to be unable to make a connection to tourism while I find it very obvious to say "who goes to BKK for the girls..." Going is not living! You made an ridiculous comment about Cambodia and asked me why I am not living there since it has cheap hookers, That is very personal, that another disturbing question because you ignore on purpose the reason why I have chosen Pattaya as my destination which you know it is! On the Menu was Noodles and Chicken and you ordered the fish! That is the whole point about you, you yell, you offend and you make up your own little world and probably believe you are cool or something! These posts haven't been one of your bad ones but in the sum of your actions in the last 2 weeks and your begging not to ignore you it was about time to plug a post like my "Tumor post" because I knew exactly that it will be you who is feeling offended because I used the word "pretentious" my other plug about throwing the drink into the girls face obviously offended the wrong people, I thought you would jump on that too pardonne moi!. And now I stop this personal crap with you for good and hope you start behaving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kojis Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 "that another disturbing question because you ignore on purpose the reason why I have chosen Pattaya as my destination which you know it is" Dunno CT... as you insist on how cheap the girls and the booze are I almost thought those were the reasons you moved to Pattaya. I humbly apologize for getting it wrong. Again, you might have a look at Yangon when you have time. And explain me please what was so farfetched including Cambodia following your reasonning... It is personnal somehow... I'm trying to get smarter and dare to hope for your kind help. But you're only talking about chicken and fish and despite me not beeing vegetarian i'm more than a bit confused...as usual when you're requested to justify your assertions... "who goes to BKK for the girls must have a serious brain tumor" Ok, this time you killed me. You were in no way offensive in the first place and would never ever think of linking the place people go to their intelligence. Thanks mate, you're bright and fair.And cool.... Kojis, out for spending a few grants in BKK G clubs on next visit - prolly also out of reach for tourists those G clubs in BKK, right CT ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kojis Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 "your begging not to ignore you it was about time to plug a post like my "Tumor post" because I knew exactly that it will be you who is feeling offended because I used the word "pretentious" my other plug about throwing the drink into the girls face obviously offended the wrong people, I thought you would jump on that too pardonne moi!. And now I stop this personal crap with you for good and hope you start behaving!" OK, so let me figure this out ... you stir shit up ... but complain when it fires back... on the open board and to mods it seems ... You're a great strong man CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Alrighty, that is gonna be a huge post first off, I am not going to pretend I would know how to compensate the loss in BKK bars because I simply don't know and actually do not care nor I am in the mood to break my head about their success or failing. This is mostly because of the for me mostly sterile environment over there, the mercenary girls and the whole attitude thing going on there. The laws are silly and meant to hurt, thats why they hurt and if Bars would open earlier they would start forbidding that as well! Nobody likes to hear that his favorite bar might not exist for too long anymore but speaking to people who really know that is what is going to happen sooner or later if the new Government doesn't make a step back! So I have been told! Everything I am going to say I base on Pattaya, on experience of my partners, my own experiences and my observations from 2 point if views, what the most don't know is that I am already having shares in one bar and I feel qualified enough to share some thoughts with you about that! It is not meant to set rules it is the way WE decided to run it based on experiences of people doing this for a long time in both cities! [color:red]Well, BKK and Pattaya are two different places with different customer bases I do think. But, it is all about the customer and many things that work in one city can cross over to the next, not all, but many I'd think. Especially the 'customer care' I expressly cited which you made no mention of here in reply. That will be a concern for all customers in both cities.[/color] Sure there are a few things that can crossover. The customer care must indeed be good, the customer has to feel appreciated and he shouldn't be bothered by the girls, whenever he feels bothered it is counterproductive, he needs to feel comfortable at any moment and to achieve that you need staff that knows who to handle the customers individually! There is no golden rule, there are dozens of rules which differ by the individuals! [color:red] Years back ST was probably the higher percentage of BFs in Pattaya. Why would this change?[/color] That is not what 6 years of statistics say of the 3 very different bars I have access to. Pattaya always was and always will cater the Girlfriend Experience which is a pain in the butt for the bar owners and why many customers come here! Pain in the butt because you loose a girl for 1 week or longer! ST such in BKK exists and is especially lived out by the Japanese fellas and of course a couple of farangs but in the majority it breaks down to having a night out together, if the girl stays overnight or leaves the hotel room after the session is a different thing, it could be technically ST but the girl is gone for the rest of the night, which makes it as her boss look like LT! [color:red]So there is no policy that once a ST is over the girl needs to return to the bar? All up to her if she wants to get another ST? This then is likely the reason BFs have increased so much the past few years I'd think. [/color] Sure many girls come back and but the most would rather go to Lucifer, spend some of their money and probably get another bloke to take her home! Dont forget in Pattaya it is easier and cheaper to live girls here are way more fun oriented than in BKK because the pressure is lower. I.E. girls that know me know I wont overpay under any circumstances and still they ask me first if I want to go out with them after hours and take them home or if they should go with the guy who just offered to bar fine. When they go out with me there is always something happening and we have fun and if she gos with that unknown fella they just get cash, probably more as from me. It is the major difference between both cities IMO! [color:red]And they are 'docked' pay when late, right? Maybe if the bar owners paid the girls more they'd figure it worth their while to be on time? Or maybe at least then the barowners would have more pay to cut and save on employee pay?[/color] A girl that is notoriously late will get money deducted and a girl that comes always on time and never calls in sick gets a bonus! Like I have said before, the stunners kinda bend the time a little bit like the normal girls need every satang of the Salary. Of course it is something you want to discuss and you don't et em dance on your nose but you are also depending on them and they know that and exploit it but after all it is a win/win situation when there are no fights going on! [color:red]So the bar owners do meet and discuss these things and try to come to some mutual agreement and impliment these ideas in all their bars? The biggest problem I see is that many bars have different policies. I know competition is strong, but it really is to their benefit, all the bars, if they can somehow get agreement and stick together on things like this.[/color] YOu never get all guys on the same table and I also don't want everyone to agree with me! Individuality is the best thing here and some bar owners visit each others bars and have drinks together and share experiences but in the main case it is about having fun and checking out the competition. I am not willing to make agreements other than those that benefit myself! You also should know that running a bar on Walking Street is no rocket science, after all it breaks down if you have hot girls or not and if you have them the people will come to see and fuck them and if you have no hot girls you will be struggling to get break even. I have to make round about 750k per month to get break even, that sounds like a lot of money but is in fact only 25k per night which can make you 3 good drinking customers alone! Re-Inventing the wheel by making some sort of agreements is not neccesary. Millions of people coming back to Pattaya every year because they have been happy and most important is to provide those that come to visit you with a girl that makes them feel good! [color:red] How do you lose 3000 baht in the two hours she is gone? And how do you make 1000? From the BF and the drinks/lady drinks?[/color] Lets talk about the star dancer aka show girls, barfine is 1000 baht! That is what I almost get when she leaves, what I get is 50% of it because the other half compensates her loss in drinks and tips. When she is gone I loose all the drinks others want to buy her, I loose the drinks that customers don't drink because they came here to see her and left disappointed and most important is that my bar is loosing quality. Also these staggered times you suggested might work for an average bar where nothing is going on but the shuffle performances but in a bar with shows you need your performers on stage and not at home or in a hotel room! [color:red]Cheaper drinks will bring in the customers who are drinkers. I see it all the time. And would make that decision myself if one bar offered a beer at a discount while the bar next door didn't, all things being fairly equal that is.[/color] Cheaper drinks is also admitting that something isn't going right! You draw the bottomline at the end of the night and not at 8pm. Bars like Living Dolls Showcase are empty for the first 4 hours because people usually pick the bar as the last one of the night because they have the best girls and after that it only could get worse! Ken refuses to sell is beer for dumping prices because his concept is a show bar and when he gets a drinker or even 50 drinkers in they will spend 100 baht each for 4 drafts and he has to run the entire bar with full service staff, bar staff which at the end costs him more than he does, they don't work for free. The way it is right now the service staff comes staggered according to the stream of people, works in 99 of 100 cases and even when other bars are packed to the last seas when his bar is empty at the end of the month he has the highest revenue! That is all that counts and not trying to get people drunk with desperation. Getting the people inside is one thing but if you can't entertain them with what your bar stands for you have no advertising effect all, you are just a drinking hall with cheap drinks! Again this is Pattaya and not making break even on Walking Street means you are a giant Dufus! [color:red]So, what is different from his 'high' grossing bar from his 'average' grossing bar? One is doing something right if this is so. What is the difference between the two? Location? Better looking girls? Better prices? Etc.[/color] The girls, it is as simple as that, no drink, no decoration, no cheap charly beer can prevent that customers staying away when you don't have hot chicks! Yes I know you would suggest that he could bring some hotties over to the weaker bar, well that just weakens the stronger bar and in business you always bet on your strongest horse. However average bar still means revenue, it is one of the bars you go before 11pm and after you go to his other bar, same customer twice the money! [color:red]How can it have no commercial effect if it does bring in customers? Half off pricing is silly. The point of discounting is to entice the customer in, while STILL making some profit that makes sense for the bar owners.[/color] Actually we had this before already You discount your drinks and people know from standing outside that you have problems inside! It works for the fewest bars, there is one the people will pick which has success with it. The whole buy one get two shit is working on paper but not in the real world because if the chicks aren't hot you dont want the 2nd drink you wanna go somewhere else! Letting the hot chicks start early is as I said exhausting, I want them to smile and comfort my customers the entire night and I have no used for a girl that started working 6 hours ago just to attract some guys that try to get stuff as cheap as possible! Hell yeah that sounds fishy, I know but if you want quality you gotta pay for quality. You don't hire shakespear to write a school play! I am not saying I don't appreciate someone who is cheap but I am also not lying for being political correct to say I appreciate them the same as one who spends 1000 baht or more. He certainly will experience the same treatment but the more good paying customers I have the happier I am. When I was running porn sites I was one of the first who was charging 29.95 USD while others charged 24USD. Everybody said it would kill my business, bullshit that is because if someone wants something really bad he will buy it but it of course puts more pressure on you to have everything he wants in place. Again it is all about the girls and when you are convinced you have brilliant girls you don't have to sell drinks cheap to attract the people, the people will spread the word! Another thing I don't see work in BKK so well! [color:red]And if the owners stick together I don't see how the girls could just walk away from one bar and go to the next, as the owners, if they were smart, would/could/should refuse to hire the ones that did this[/color] Sorry, that isn't smart that is stupid! Bars live from changing girls and every hot girl that wants to work for me is welcomed to do so! With the new opening times in minds it might be a compromise to go for but one WILL break the rule anyways and everyone gotta be stupid to turn down a stunner! [color:red]Yes, but these same girls usually do not care a whit for the owners concerns and problems as well[/color] She doesn't have to, she has to be nice to the customers and dance good! [color:red]Do you really think punters will all wait until 12:30 to BF the girl of their choice?[/color] It is the rule here in Pattaya, they doing it or go elsewhere and another guy is happy to get his hand on the stunner! You don't let your show girls run off with a customer when you have a show bar. You don't want to have only ugly girls in your bar so you instate some rules that they can't walk off just like that, at least for your star girls! As a punter I dont like this myself and have argued before especially in bars where they do pseudo shows but I realize that I need to have good girls on stage even late at night because many people will give my bar a shot late at night and when I have nothing to offer they won't buy anything and will never return! [color:red]Fucked if I would pay a barfine and then wait until 12:30 to have the lass go with me[/color] I never barfine myself, I meet the after hours! If one can't wait 30 minutes until she goes off he has to pay if he can wait he gets her for free! Too much theory here. The chances are higher that he sticks with the girl buys himself a drink and her as well as that he runs of ranting! C'mon you know these guys! [color:red]They may not be YOUR most appreciated customers as a bar owner, but that is what is being sold. If you want to run a bar then run a bar. But a Thai agogo is selling more than beers and shots man.[/color] It is ALL I sell! I don't sell pussy they sell themselves, of course they don't come for the drinks but that is my goal to make them buy the drinks! If I agree to every bloke to barfine the lady I like I sit alone at 10pm and can close my bar. You are way too much in customer mode here, you have to protect your investment and you have to instate strict rules that apply to the girls and to the customers at the end of the night they get something they don't get at home on probably 90% of the punters are willing to make this sacrifice and stick around! Guys are too easy, give them a pussy and they are happy. I dont make money from that, I need to make the buy drinks that I can continue offering him girls, I pay a stunner 15k per month so she better do some work for me. Give the girls interesting commissions like 50 baht per drink and she is glad to sink a couple of drinks more! She makes money from that, she needs to meet her drink quotas otherwise she gets a serious cut in her salary. Trust me, the girls here don't wanna go, the good ones get tips, drinks and have fun with their friends and customers. Good ones really pull a lot and an average stunner gets a 1000 extra with drinks and all that stuff, that is 25k more on top of a 15k salary which makes her 40k already without even smelling a dick! The girls control the pace and the good ones can make their customers stay and if he leaves another one will come! They know it! However the average girls can go off with a guy whenever they want! [color:red]Yes, true. And if that is so then pay her well for her beauty and dancing abilities and forget selling her pussy and making money off it. If that is as you say then there is no need to let her go during her shift, and if you pay her well enough and are making that much money off her presence in your bar she would not even need to go fuck men for money.[/color] Again, I am not selling her pussy, she sells it! I am more the shopping window but I make no profit whatsoever if a stunner is leaving! In Kens bar the top girl is pulling 8k per night in tip, she drinks 15 drinks per night and after hours she goes humping for 3k short time which the guys are keen to pay because she is the Number 1 in the city (not by her looks) I would be the happiest camper in town if I only had girls like that! The really really hot ones do have boyfriends already and if not yet very soon! They will not get barfined by any chance from a customer, they wanna shag they do it after hours, secretely and pretend to be the nice girls! Most of the problems solve themselves by the boyfriend situation, that's why there is way too much theory in this whole word exchange between you and me Hot girls = customer come and the girls and my job is to keep em around! One thing I don't like about BKK is that everything FEELS like a Mc Fuck Drive in, sell drinks quick, go fuck quick and bring her back quick! Of course that is a very radical view which is meant to be sarcastic but it kinda describes the pace of this city for someone who is used to the comfy stuff and fooling around with the lady of your choice in Pattaya [color:red] No need to exploit the girls at all then, right? Just pay them to dance naked, be pretty and friendly, and rake in all that money from selling drinks! But, I see this as BS[/color] It is the mix and it is not only black or white, isn't it? Some are keen to go and can do so after mindnight some want to stay to make tips and some want to go asap. I pay them a salary and if I loose a stunner at 9pm then I would have to charge way more which probably pisses the guy more off instead of staying around or picking her up later! [color:red]The majority of the guys are in Thailand, and in Pattaya particularly, exactly for that! What? You think they are there for the bar and the drinks? They can go to bars and drink back in London, or Boston, or where ever they are from. It is the fact they can take a girl from the bar and pay to fuck her is why they are there. Don't forget that CT. Your bar, no matter how fine, fun, and cool, is merely the forum where the guys can go look and take that pussy home to their beds to screw. Forget that this is truly your customer base here as a barowner in Thailand and you will fail miserably.[/color] Exactly they come look and get what they want but not before the girl has done her job. There is no bar whatsoever in this city who let's Top 8 birds go early, so if they are angry at me they are angry at anyone else! I am not loosing business, it is the rules they have to accept as I have to accept that I will loose my best horses in the stable for less money as the girl would contribute to the bar! You said before that I should not let the girls control me! I have to look that the customers don't make the rules either. As PC uncorrect this may sound to you but men are hormon monsters and if I let them they take them out at 8pm and theny I have to close my bar because I have no money and other bars would close too and then there would be no adult playground with silver poles no more! Haha! Okay not that dramatic but you get my drift and Maybe your ST idea works which would piss me off majorly to be told I have to be back in 2 hours and bring her back to work, maybe I want to go eat with her, go dance or fuck her twice, maybe I stay limb because of the pressure, I honestly think that all the customer care is for the ass if you pressure your customers to deliver their semen within a certain amount of time. That is western brothel style! If one guy comes to me and offers to bag that girl and bring her back within 2 hours and she is fine with it there is space for discussions depending on how the girls situation is that day, but allowing it in general kills your business in the long run! [color:red]Which is why I gave my ideas as to how you can get customers and keep customers as a gogo bar in Thailand. Seems many barowners do not realize this and forget exactly what sort of business they are actually running here. Say sorry to that one guy and all those 'one guys' will give your bar a miss and go where they can drink cheaper, get good treatment from the staff and owner, and, get what they truly came for, their barfine of the day, or two hour ST at least. Forget that at your own peril CT. Do you really think the other 99 guys out of the hundred are there in Pattaya for other reasons?[/color] I am glad we typed our finger bloody and I totally agree that the treatment must be great and you have to make the people feel comfortable and serve them fast, that is why we are considering a change and thinking of hiring guys for the service because girls main goal is to get a lady drink and that makes less good service girls while nobody buys the guys a drink. I see that in Happy A Gogo, the staff is brilliant there absolutely brilliant. About the barfine thing we are totally on a different page but that might have something to do with that you are a married man, can't probably spend the night out and needs to get things done by midnight (I am not implying are a monger, just saying that this might influence your view if it would be like that) However, the customer have to realize that they aren't a customer no more when they leave the bar with the girl, They have to realize that when they don't drink we can't afford to hire girls and they have to know that when we have no hot girls in the bar they won't like us! So everyone is doing compromises and meets in the middle which is midnight in my bar so everyone gets at some point what he wants, the girl gets her money and her bonus money from the customer, The customer gets his lay and and I can keep on running the bar! Can't wait to have another breakfast with you 2 handsome fellas! 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Guest lazyphil Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 fecking heck where do u get the time to run your bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Bwhahahahaha Cent asked me very detailed, what options did I have except of trying to answer almost all of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Kojis, out for spending [color:red]a few grants[/color] in BKK G clubs on next visit I let it rest now and I suggest you do the same, all is said and we disagree on every level! Now here.... this is not meant to make fun of your or to be provocative or anything like that, it is meant to be funny (maybe it is) I think you meant to spend some grand because what you said looks like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elef Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Didn't know that the fifties were grants, I thought about govermnent grants.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 It is former President Ulysses Grant on the note! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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