American History X

[chuckwoww]

"The well-intended intervention of 'affirmative action' created resentment where there was previously none."

 

I don't know about that bibblies. It was just a movie and to some extent the characters were all stereotypical. Hard to say what was going through Derek's father's mind about 'affirmative blacktion' as he called it.

 

Could be he was just a good old fashioned racist. The kind that showed up for lynchings.

 

[bibblies]

But the movie didn't suggest anything like that, especially from Derek.

 

Forget that that we saw the consequences first. Although we don't see the dinner/father/book scene until near the end of the movie, chronologically it's the first scene with the family (and just about the only one with the father in it).

 

At that point, it seems like a normal well-balanced family and the way Derek initially reacts with surprise to his father's questioning about the book leads us to believe that nothing has emerged from his father before about this kind of thing. So certainly nothing shown in the movie suggests that he's just a 'good old-fashioned racist who'd go to a lynching'.

 

What's more, it's a pretty amicable discussion from reasonable-sounding people - Derek, the father, the mother. At that point, there's no dogma - people are talking in a civilised way to each other with opposing reasonable points (i.e. the father saying that literature shouldn't be judged by colour) and no one's getting heated. There's no particular dogma. I don't think you'd find that any of that from a character who was prepared to lynch.

[chuckwoww]

True. The father was a pretty regular guy. That's why I thought the film was more about anger than anything else. Derek welcomed the opportunity to kill that black guy who tried to steal the car. He loved it. All that youthfull anger was finally coming out and he even had an excuse. Not a good enough excuse as far as the law was concerned but in his own mind it felt beautifully right.

 

Philosophically it shows the fine line between civilized behaviour and barbarism. All the discussion is focussed on the rights and wrongs of affirmative action but for me it's about how to deal with righteous anger.

[bibblies]

History suggests that they didn't have a soft spot for poor black applicants. Blacks were routinely kept out of unions as well.

 

We didn't see enough of them before the racism really took hold of Derek in this particular film but, as I said, in the one scene we saw that covered that time, they seemed like reasonable chaps.

 

I think it's a natural impulse in reasonable people to natually take a little account of background.

 

For example, a university recruiter could look at two candidates with slightly different grades and naturally take into account the fact that one candidate achieved his grades at a rougher school than the other and maybe even be more impressed with that achievement. The recruiter might genuinely value that person more highly than the person who got better grades at a better school because he might feel that the achievement indicates that the first has shown more drive, more character or more raw potential.

 

Those are natural inclinations, I think.

 

But if you should proscribe that the candidate from a weaker school HAS to get a place, resentment will start to foster. It's another natural inclination - no one likes being told what to do!

 

So something you were trying to legislate was already happening to some extent naturally and, ironically, the act of legislation, made it worse overall.

 

That's how I read it, given that scene. It's an interesting scene to put in - without it, the movie would have been a little cliched.

 

[chuckwoww]

"....no one likes being told what to do!"

 

That's for sure. Not even those happy go lucky folks down South who got told how much cotton to pick.

 

Affirmative action was an attempt (by misguided white liberals) to right some wrongs. Like Steve says maybe it's working.

[kojis]

After the kerb scene... here's a real life clip... and every partcipant seemed willing. Go figure !?!

 

can you hear the guy wishing he had a time machine??? OUCH!!!!

[Guest lazyphil]

i like the scene they lopped off bravehearts head at the end, movie magic!!!

[kojis]

And now some kosher ass wooping

 

Would make a funny scene with a palestinian in place of the cow...

 

Kojis, meat lover

[Steve]

Rasicst of all stripes don't wear horns and are always mean. They can seem well adjusted folks. I went to school in the south and there were happy go lucky racists rednecks and there were seemingly well adjusted Nation of Islam guys who had a visceral hatred for whites and jews.

We all have very good friends or family members who we love dearly, are good folks, but are prejudiced or racist.

 

If the same scene happened and the father was black and took the opposing view toward whites, etc. I think some would talk about the subtle or suggestive nature of his comments to his son.

 

Its a fine line. You have to know the persons heart and we don't. There are some of us who treat each person fairly no matter their color, religion, etc. and take them one at a time and some of us who harbor some deep prejudices and both can act the same and make the same comment but have differing meanings.

 

As for as AA, I think it had varying success or failure depending on the situation (college, varying industries, etc.). One could argue that the lingering resentment by large segments of the population would deem it a failure over all. I would ask though was there a problem to begin with in various strata of society? If your answer is no, then it was totally unecessary and did far more harm than good. If the answer is yes, then in hindsight, what was the best solution? Time? A different strategy? Only certain situations and if so which?

 

 

 

 

[sayjann]

am i the only person who thought the film was shite?......