Happy Fourth!!!

[SpiceMan]

As a Brit, I see the American revolution as totally justified. It was necessary to transfer sovereignty from the King / Parliament to the people. To this day, British people are not sovereign in their own land. People like Thomas Payne hoped the revolution would spread back to the UK. Bountiful harvests and full bellies prevented this, despite the political disconent in England at the time.

[Steve]

All of Europe didn't think the nation would last. They saw it as a threat. Even France who helped didn't like the notion of a nation not governed by a monarch. They helped for financial reasons. It was an experimental government and most of Europe thought it would fail miserably. A republic was seen as fantasy, a long lost greek experiment that had no place in the 'modern' world at the time.

Ben Franklin had faith in it and put the naysayers to rest by donating in his will a sizable amount to the city of Philadelphia that would be payable in 200 years after his death. He said he had enough faith in the concept of a republic that it would last for 200 years. He died in 1791 and in 1991 the monies was released to the city. There was a savings and loan that was around at the time that through mergers and acquisitions still was around 200 years later.

 

 

[BSTaucer]

<< For the record, Britain did not lose that war, rather we capitulated, and thus accomplished a major feat, creating the largest insane asylum on record to date. We later went on to create the largest prison. >>

 

Only problem is you ran out of Brits and had to start importing aliens.

 

 

 

Dear sir,

 

Touche old man! Rather good one I must say. Yes of course we did leave those malcontents there to fend for themselves, but of course, they did so rather well.

 

Best Regards-BST

 

[BSTaucer]

Dear Steven,

 

 

While I indeed do see some truths in your comments I should take notable exception that the revolution was unnecessary, or "wrong."

 

No sir, while I of course would normally side with Britain, I do see where some truly had an idea "who's time had come." You see lad, this was something the world had not seen before, well perhaps in ancient Greece or what not, but this was a modern time experiment of sorts.

 

Now of course your founding fathers were indeed self serving with an ax to grind with the British government, but the concept was clear, if nothing else, the freedom to decent from the government mandates. Not to mention of course, the freedom to assemble as a means to address the grievances one might have with the ruling party.

 

So sir, I must disagree with your presentation. I do indeed see where it was necessary, or in some other way, a noble cause and concept.

[Lusty]

On another note, had America lost the war, my ancestors would have been freed ealier as the British empire outlawed slavery in the late 1830s throughout the empire. Darn it!

I thought you said your ancestors were from Brixton,SE London!

[Flashermac]

I've always found this fellow fascinating:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Tye

 

 

[was_usvirgin]

Y'all have lost the spirit of the 4th of July.

 

I had a great day on the LBC peninsula and, as far as I could tell, it's about teenie bikinis - the teeniest I've ever seen.

 

It's also about people cruising around from party to party (on bicycles, hopefully - if you're really wasted, then walk your bike) and meeting up with old friends.

 

Who gives a fuck about history?

 

Again, the LBC is madness. For a beach town with no surf, it sure feels like a surf town.

[Steve]

BT, good post. I will say that the end result has been great. Representative government and republicanism as a form of government (not to be confused with the political party bearing the name) was and is a great example for the world to follow.

 

I'm glad things turned out as they did but some would suggest that the framers were basically businessmen who wanted to keep their money. They only allowed the landed gentry to vote (as was the case in Britain) and denied the vote to women (custom at the time) and those without property and they did maintain the institution of slavery (although most weren't comfortable with it. Even slave holding founders like Jefferson and Madison). So, partially altruistic and partially self serving is the best I can do. :smirk:

 

It was England afterall who ended slavery first and made a lot of social welfare strides before America did. I think even beating the U.S. with giving women the right to vote by a couple years (1918 to the U.S.'s 1920). The commies in the USSR gave them the right to vote in 1917. WW I changed a lot of minds for some reason.

 

The republic was good in concept if not in practice for many things, so that was a good thing.

 

Sorry to put a damper on the 4th of July mood. Just recalled some stuff I read about it that I felt compelled to repeat on here for no apparant reason than to be historically accurate I guess.

 

Great time to fire off some fireworks, have a barbecue with freinds and family. Feel a bit of national pride, wave the flag a bit and pat our collective backs here for being who we are.

[was_usvirgin]

When I grew up in Pacific Palestine, we had a 4th of July parade, and a pro beach volleyball event preceeding it. By the time we made it up the hill to the parade, we were already wasted. Then the party began. The cops didn't care about drinking on the street or under age drinking. I did stupid shit like joining in with a marching band from Compton. We pretty much did whatever we wanted, without being too disrespecful to others (in most cases). Those were the days, I guess.

 

Now, the beaches are a police state, and so are the parades.

[Torneyboy]

The US Kitty Hawke arrived in Sydney today..7000 sailors...they will have a late but great 4th

 

Our night gals will be flat out this week