65 year old Finn murdered

[Gadfly]

The references to â??Jungian or Freudian archetypesâ? (Freudian archetypes?) must be a joke. But perhaps not, since you also say you â??really dislike â?¦ the incongruence between on one hand the anxious maintenance by some expats of social respectability and on the other hand the drive to indulge in "forbidden" night life activities.â? I, on the other hand, enjoy remaining employed.

 

As with giving out too much information to BGs, the issue here is purely practical. There have been threads here before about the often hilarious consequences of guys letting BGs know where they work. Well, the threads are hilarious if you are just reading rather than experiencing them.

 

I am certainly not anti-BG and I actually agree with what I think is the sentiment behind your statement: â??I have found many bar girls being in their own way more honest and, what shall I call it, "pure minded" than many farang expats here.â? But that is damning with faint praise.

 

BGs can be tremendously sanook, great drinking buddies and wonderful fucks, but it is incredibly foolish to invest them with more than a modicum of trust. That doesnâ??t mean I think all BGs are â??bad peopleâ?Â. When a BG schnookers a Farang into sponsoring her, buying her a car or sending her serious money to cure the sick buffalo, I certainly donâ??t blame the BG.

 

But I will suggest to Farangs, expats and tourists, to pause for a moment and consider the incentives that drive BGs, and the likely consequences of those incentives. What happened here is not typical of the negatives that occur when Farangs get drawn in too deep into a BG relationship - most survive, albeit generally with a bit of financial rather than physical damage â?? but what happened here is actually not all that surprising and probably more common that we realize. This is just a case where the BG and her Thai boyfriend were caught on camera.

[Gadfly]

During my 7 years living in Bangkok I took numerous BG's back to my homes, I never concealed my identity and some even knew where I worked and during that time I never had a problem with any of them.

 

Good for you. And yet we read countless stories in the press and repeatedly see threads here where others have not been so fortunate.

 

We all have to make decisions about how we want to live. I think Flashermac's advice was dead on. If you can indulge in Bangkok's nightlife without incurring the risks that arise when BGs know where you live and work, why do so?

 

It is sort of like the guys that get into relationships with BGs or sponsor them. I have lived here 14 years (March) and I have to ask: "Why do this?"

[playtheblues]

Quite a modification of language used for characterizing the (typical?) BG, compared to your previous postings, congratulations! Now they have moved up one step from the criminal low life level, so they are to congratulate too.

 

There is no reason for polemics for polemics own sake - though it has its entertainment value. So i stop here. Only would like to suggest that there is such a concept as "Freudian archetypes", although personal and biographical rather then biological and universal as are the Jungian archetypes. Thus less applicable in the context I drew up, agree. But it's not a joke, rather a conceptual game to highlight contradictions in mens' behaviour towards women and in this case why a guy deep down rejects those bar girl relations he is so strongly drawn into. And this rejection translates into a totally exaggerated risk aversion and even hostility towards those girls. "Exaggerated" is the key word here.

 

The poor Finn: he should never have entered into that relation, period.

 

And finally, way off thread: smoking is way more risky than revealing your ID to even thousands of BGs.

[btm1735]

"There is no reason for polemics for polemics own sake - though it has its entertainment value. So i stop here. Only would like to suggest that there is such a concept as "Freudian archetypes", although personal and biographical rather then biological and universal as are the Jungian archetypes. Thus less applicable in the context I drew up, agree. But it's not a joke, rather a conceptual game to highlight contradictions in mens' behaviour towards women and in this case why a guy deep down rejects those bar girl relations he is so strongly drawn into. And this rejection translates into a totally exaggerated risk aversion and even hostility towards those girls. "Exaggerated" is the key word here."

 

Freud was a drug addict, which doesn't make him a bad person, but you do have to question his logic and the logic of people who spend years in analysis. You are talking theory. We are talking real world.

 

If you don't think of a girl who makes her living on her back as dubious, then you are the one with Madonna issues. The other side of the coin is there are some very shady guys that frequent BG's and any girl that doesn't view them as dubious probably have issues with not liking themselves very much.

 

That said, some BG's I have known are some of the best people I have ever met. Thing is that neither side can assume anything. It is sheer stupidity to immediately allow ANYBODY right into your life. If you allow them into your home and other parts of your life, it can be difficult to get them out.

 

It is just easier to assume the worst and work up from there as opposed to assuming the best and try to work your way back. If you don't get that then you really have little experience or have been very lucky.

[playtheblues]

I have been very lucky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gadfly]

Quite a modification of language used for characterizing the (typical?) BG, compared to your previous postings, congratulations!

 

Wrong. You are either confusing me with another poster or dissembling. I have been very consistent in my postings about BGs - it's all about incentives and commonsense. And you won't be able to find a post by me that says otherwise.

[bibblies]

During my 7 years living in Bangkok I took numerous BG's back to my homes, I never concealed my identity and some even knew where I worked and during that time I never had a problem with any of them. :thumbup:

 

You got lucky. It's as simple as that. Like taking a holiday or owning a house without insurance or taking a car trip without wearing a seatbelt. It just takes the one event to get you.

 

I've never had a job to protect here but I wouldn't reveal my workplace, or, probably, a permanent abode (if I were particularly attached to it). As you said, most are surprisingly placid but it only takes the odd one to shake you out of complacency. I've had one or two crazies. Maybe you just didn't sample enough girls?

 

I have at least one girl in common with Gadfly and a couple of times have tried to find out more about him. From the little I got, I have to suspect that he's got some sort of 'Mission Impossible' setup complete with different passports and faces for whenever he goes out.

[CTO]

I was told long ago NEVER let the know about yourself in details. Funny to see people get burnt sometimes not even realising they are being burnt.

[playtheblues]

Just as I thought you were getting nicer...

 

Indeed, it is easy to be mis- or over-interpreted on a forum like this. I indicated initially that I found some posters policy of RADICAL (I managed to discipline myself not to use the word "paranoid") anonymity towards their nightly moitiees less than heroic. I also felt a SCENT - faint or strong - of Victorianism and an ECHO - soft or loud - of Christian misogynism in this overly cautious attitude. I used the polarity between Madonna(Mother) and Whore (the Devil) just as metaphor, totally exaggerated of course, to make my point. Same thing with Freud; my intention was not to start a seminar about freudianism ( which I consider rather as a carrier of myths and metaphors rather then a useful tool for psychoanalysis), just to remind about the unescapable reality of the sub- or unconscious.

 

This was however understod to mean that I accused these posters of full fledged Victorianism and fanatical Christianism and naive overestimation of Freud. I was also interpreted as recommending that everybody should hand over their ATM cards to their short time "tee rak" (don't do this!). And so on.

 

I guess it all boils down to personal preferences. As to me I would less and less want to indulge in such a sensual and very intimate act a sex with a woman without any personal involvement at all - that is total, almost robotlike non-involvement, using the partner only as an instrument for my own satisfaction.

 

It would point towards denying her genuine individual existence.

 

Albert Camus once wrote that being impolite to somebody is denying the other person authentic existence. In reversal, regarding another individual as a non-person is the gravest form of being rude. I might be naive and, as somebody suggested, very inexperienced (forget about what I said being very lucky ...).

 

But who am I to judge anybody else? All this high-strung stuff is outside the core of our discussion, so don't take it as any sort of attack or peronal implication from my side.

 

To (at last) end on a positive note. Discretion towards the third party is always to recommend in these matters. People shouldn't get your night life frivolities thrown in their face.

 

 

[Gadfly]

You got lucky. It's as simple as that. Like taking a holiday or owning a house without insurance or taking a car trip without wearing a seatbelt. It just takes the one event to get you.

 

I've never had a job to protect here but I wouldn't reveal my workplace, or, probably, a permanent abode (if I were particularly attached to it). As you said, most are surprisingly placid but it only takes the odd one to shake you out of complacency. I've had one or two crazies. Maybe you just didn't sample enough girls?

 

I have at least one girl in common with Gadfly and a couple of times have tried to find out more about him. From the little I got, I have to suspect that he's got some sort of 'Mission Impossible' setup complete with different passports and faces for whenever he goes out.

 

Bibblies is right - it only takes one event. The BG that both Bibblies I know is a case in point. (Where is she these days?)

 

From what Bibblies has told me of his experiences with her (which will not be repeated here by me), I really don't think I would want her to know where I live, work, etc. I don't want any BG to know this sort of stuff. And this has nothing to do with any Victorian attitudes.