playtheblues Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 Not that I would be the one to know, but I rate relations with BGs generally as relatively low risk compared to, say, smoking, overeating etc which have been discussed and sometimes defended as acceptable behaviour on this board. But of course there are bar girls and there are bar girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitagawn Posted April 5, 2008 Report Share Posted April 5, 2008 The probelm with "having relations with BGs" is that one has to spend time with them and be around them" :smirk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadfly Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Never ... ever ... let a BG know where you live. I have to use more than one hand to count the number of expats I know who have had to move just to get away from one. True. And I also learned this lesson the hard way, although not as hard as others. A second apartment ('hong gig') may seem frivilous, but I see it as an excellent form of insurance. Even BGs I have known for over 10 years (yes, there are a few) don't know where I live, work, or what I do for a living. Most BGs can and do lie without hesitation, so Farangs living here are wise to engage in a bit of dissembling themselves. Just make sure that you donâ??t tell them that you are from a country where you can't speak the language. It is this sort of stuff that makes me so amazed at guys who sponsor BGs or try to establish real relationships with them. They really don't understand what they are getting themselves into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtheblues Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 I am less than impressed by the overly cautious attitude expressed by some posters here and on other sites as well as in books, with its scent of Victorianism or echoes of Christian misogynism: the dangerous whore in contrast to the madonnalike mother. What are you, normally so viril and manly guys, so afraid of? (Considering some people's smoking and drinking habits, they don't seem risk averse at all) Sometimes attitudes here reminds me of the bigotry of a small provincial village portrayed in a Maupassant or Zola novel, the petit bourgeois "gentleman" oh so keen on maintaining the social facade. If I am too concerned about the danger I don't try to climb that steep rock wall. If the bar girl your fancy is too dangerous for you, then refrain from the whole adventure. To go with her and at the same time consider her a criminal low lifeshows a lack of basic respect towards another human being. Literature has as I said dealt with this form of male hypocrisy (spelling?) very effectively: time to reread "La Putaine Respectuese" (Sartre) maybe? Quite more to the point then all those variations of the "Private Dancers" theme around here. Now I have outposted my yearly quota... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bust Posted April 6, 2008 Report Share Posted April 6, 2008 Ever considered a Plato forum.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtheblues Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Not a philosophical issue, really :smirk: . I should have mentioned the movies of course. The theme of "The Dangerous Female" - of which the whore is the quintessential (is that the word?) representative - has been exquisitely developed by the great film makers. Of course, Bunuel is the master here but also notably Alfred Hitchcock. There is this fantastic and famous dinner scene in "Notorious" (1946), where CIA agent Cary Grant uses this romantically intended event to persuade Ingrid Bergman to initiate an undercover love affair with an ex-nazi. Suddenly the so charming and infatuated Grant becomes cold and distant towards the loving Bergman. And this is not only because he must talk business with her. It's also because he suddenly becomes afraid of his own attraction to a lady who he might persuade to become, not a whore, but an equally dangerous Mata Hari. I watch this beautiful sequence again and again (they don't make movies like this anymore...). But now I got carried far away from the poor Finn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadfly Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 I am less than impressed by the overly cautious attitude expressed by some posters here and on other sites as well as in books, with its scent of Victorianism or echoes of Christian misogynism: the dangerous whore in contrast to the madonnalike mother. What are you, normally so viril and manly guys, so afraid of? Thanks for sharing, but I donâ??t think anyone here is trying to impress you about anything. The issue here is commonsense precautions. And Flashermac was dead on right when he said it is a mistake to let a BG know where you live. It's a mistake to let a BG know other things as well. The issues are really as simple and basic as that. But for you literary Noman Mailer tough guy wannabes, who want to establish your virility and establish manly intellectual integrity and visibly demonstrate a clear sighted disdain for Christian misogynism by expressing a rejection of â??the dangerous whore in contrast to the madonnalike motherâ? - whatever the hell all that means; I wasnâ??t brought up Catholic and I am not religious at all so none of this resonates with me and I really donâ??t understand these sorts of hang-ups â?? by all means go for it. Take the BG back to your apartment. Demonstrate your rejection of â??Christian misogynismâ? and thumb your nose at Victorianism by showing all the World that you donâ??t view her as an untrustworthy whore by giving her your absolute and unconditional trust. Why stop at sponsoring the BG. Hell, give her your keys and the password to the safe in your hotel and your ATM? I am sure sheâ??ll be quite appreciative, and you will have demonstrated that you are no Victorian. Of course, this comes at a price: in this case, the contents of your ATM and hotel safe. This is not about some contrast between â??dangerous whoresâ? and â??Madonna-like mothersâ?Â, unless you believe in that sort of stuff, which I donâ??t. Actually, not having the requisite religious upbringing, I have no real feel for this tension. I therefore have no choice but to view matters in a more simple minded way. The simple fact is that BGs lie and use pretense to their financial advantage. Everyone does to some extent, and I certainly don't view BGs as 'bad people.' But I also recognize that BGs are much more effective at creating romantic illusions than others (some of them are awe inspiring artists in their ability to do this), and guys here fall for it all the time - how else do you explain a 19 year older stunner with bald, obese 60 year old guy I just saw on the BTS an hour ago? I suggest we simply accept this, forget about this Madonna nonsense, and take the obvious precautions that common sense dictates when dealing with BGs. Or, if you are still wrestling with old parochial school values and need to justify your nightlife activities to yourself, simply hand her the keys. The consequences should quickly destroy any literary pretensions you have about living you here and bring you back to your senses. Of course, you will also be broke when you arrive back at your senses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dddave Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 Credit for credit due dept: escaping mention is that the often maligned Police seem to have done a pretty competent job nailing the perps in this sordid story. The girl was an easy catch but tracking and catching the boyfriend took some dogged persistence and good police work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtheblues Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 A predictable but nonetheless quite entertaining reaction! About being "less then impressed" I meant to say that I did not particularily like what was said, not that I thought that you tried to impressed me. Aren't you a native English speaker who should understand this kind of elliptical sentences? Well, among other things I suggested some congruousness (damned language!) between action and attitude. If she is too dangerous for you, don't deal with her! Or, if you want her, be a little bit more brave! The cultural thing: whether we had a Christian upbringing or not is not necessarily relevant here - we all bear strong elements of Christian (and post-Victorian) prejudices within us. It's subconscious of course. Jungian or Freudian archetypes deep inside our collective mindset. I feel sorry for you that you don't understand this very central aspect of Western culture, because you miss some of the interesting themes and characters in Western literature, movies etc. I really dislike - and you did not comment on this main theme of my posting but focussed on the security aspect - the incongruence between on one hand the anxious maintenance by some expats of social respectability and on the other hand the drive to indulge in "forbidden" night life activities. My identity, whereabouts, home adress etc might be known by scores of bar girls (I don't say that so is the case) - and I wouldn't worry about it. Actually I have never cared much about being socially respectable. By the way, regarding security: you are talking to a person who has almost 25 years experience of life in Bangkok, without one single mishap whatsoever(!). It actually disturbs me more that my ID is revealed to some farangs on the internet, thanks to some "phuut maak" members of the expat community. Actually I have found many bar girls being in their own way more honest and, what shall I call it, "pure minded" than many farang expats here. The "illusionist" expertise among bar girls is well known; actually I wrote a piece about it on the Stickman site a few years back. You rediscover America, my friend. This was fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Munchmaster Posted April 7, 2008 Report Share Posted April 7, 2008 During my 7 years living in Bangkok I took numerous BG's back to my homes, I never concealed my identity and some even knew where I worked and during that time I never had a problem with any of them. :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.