Obama on the Time Horizon?

[JayT]

Bush agrees to time 'horizon' on Iraq troop cuts

By TERENCE HUNT Jul. 19, 2008

 

President Bush and Iraq's prime minister have agreed to set a "general time horizon" for bringing more U.S. troops home from the war, a dramatic shift from the administration's once-ironclad unwillingness to talk about any kind of deadline or timetable.

 

The announcement Friday put Bush in the position of offering to talk with Iraqi leaders about a politically charged issue that he adamantly has refused to discuss with the Democratic-led Congress at home. It also could complicate the presidential campaign arguments of Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama who have staked out starkly opposite stands about the unpopular war.

 

What's changed? The sharp reduction in violence in Iraq - to the lowest level in four years - has made the country's leaders increasingly confident and more assertive about its sovereignty, giving rise to demands for a specific plan for American forces to leave.

 

Iraq has leverage because the White House is struggling to salvage negotiations for a long-term agreement covering U.S. military operations there. The White House said its goal is to conclude that deal by the end of this month.

 

Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki talked about the stalled negotiations during a secure video conference on Thursday, agreeing "on a common way forward to conclude these negotiations as soon as possible," a White House statement said.

 

...Bush repeatedly has vetoed legislation approved by Congress setting deadlines for American troop cutbacks.

 

...Ben Rose, a senior adviser to Obama, said, "It's another indication that the administration is moving toward ... Sen. Obama's position on negotiating the removal of our forces as part of our ongoing discussions with the Iraqi government."

 

Link

[Julian2]

You put your right foot in,

You take your right foot out

You put your right foot in and you shake it all about.

You do the Hokey Pokey and you turn yourself around

And that's what it's all about.

 

[Hugh_Hoy]

Sure, Time (part of the Demos press corps) would put that slant on it. That is, a "time line". I tend to think of the "horizon" terminology as an "event line". That is, when "this happens, we can do this"...without reference to "time". There is a big difference.

 

HH

[Faustian]

Don't ya just love interpretations.....?

[JayT]

Iraqi Leader Backs 16-Month Pullout Plan

 

KABUL, July 19 -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama got his first look at deteriorating conditions in war-torn Afghanistan on Saturday, meeting with U.S. military commanders and local officials and touring part of the country by helicopter on the first day of a highly anticipated visit abroad that drew a fresh rebuke from Republican rival John McCain.

 

Obama, traveling as part of an official congressional delegation, landed in the Afghan capital on Saturday morning under tight security amid a surge of Taliban activity in recent weeks. After a briefing at Bagram air base, he flew by helicopter to the northeastern city of Jalalabad in Nangahar province, where he met with U.S. soldiers and local leaders. From there, according to a U.S.-based aide, Obama set out by helicopter for a look at parts of eastern Afghanistan before returning to Kabul for a dinner with senior Afghan officials.

 

The presumptive Democratic nominee shied away from public comments as his trip began, belying the intense interest in the trip and its political ramifications. McCain used his new weekly radio address on Saturday to attack Obama's foreign policy credentials and judgment. But as McCain sparred with his rival, the Illinois senator received an unexpected boost from Iraqi President Nouri al-Maliki, who told the German magazine Der Spiegel that he looked favorably on Obama's call for a 16-month timetable for withdrawing most U.S. forces from Iraq.

 

Maliki's interview was published a day after White House officials announced that President Bush and the Iraqi leader had reached agreement on the need to set a "time horizon" for withdrawing U.S. troops, a significant shift in position by a president who long had resisted applying any semblance of a timeline on U.S. military involvement.

 

Iraq is expected to be part of the itinerary of Obama's trip, which also includes stops in Jordan, Israel, Germany, France and Britain. The long-planned journey is designed to enhance Obama's foreign policy credentials and allay the concerns of some voters that he lacks the experience to serve as commander in chief while the country is engaged in two wars and a global campaign against terrorism.

 

The Whole Truth

 

[JayT]

Iraq Points to Pullout in 2010

 

High-Level Statement Is Second in Days to Back Timetable Similar to Obama's

 

BAGHDAD, July 21 -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama conferred with senior Iraqi leaders, U.S. officials and military commanders Monday, as a spokesman for the Iraqi government declared that it would like U.S. combat forces to complete their withdrawal by the end of 2010.

 

The comments by spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh mark the second time in recent days that a senior Iraqi has endorsed a timetable for U.S. withdrawal that is roughly similar to the one advocated by Obama. Dabbagh suggested that a combat force pullout could be completed by the end of 2010, which would be about seven months longer than Obama's 16-month formulation.

 

Dabbagh made the statement after Obama's meeting with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who has faced pressure from the White House in recent days to clarify published comments that he supported Obama's 16-month plan.

 

Dabbagh said that his government is working "on a real timetable which Iraqis set" and that the 2010 deadline is "an Iraqi vision."

 

"We can't give any schedules or dates, but the Iraqi government sees the suitable date for withdrawal of the U.S. forces is by the end of 2010," he told reporters.

 

The White House responded quickly to Dabbagh's remarks, which along with Maliki's earlier comments have been a thorny political problem for an administration that has opposed attaching firm dates to troop withdrawals as it negotiates the future U.S.-Iraqi relationship.

 

"We don't think that talking about specific negotiating tactics or your negotiating position in the press is the best way to negotiate a deal," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said, suggesting that Dabbagh was responding to domestic pressure.

 

Obama's visit comes at a time when American troops levels, the timing of withdrawal and overall U.S.-Iraq strategy have become central issues in the U.S. presidential campaign, as well as in Iraqi politics.

 

Dabbagh said Maliki did not discuss troop withdrawals with his visitor. "Senator Barack Obama is a candidate, and we are talking to the administration which is in power," he said. But in many ways -- from the red carpet rolled out at Maliki's residence to Obama's seat of honor next to Maliki during formal consultations -- he was treated like a visiting head of state.

 

The White House said Friday that Maliki and President Bush had agreed to set a "time horizon" for the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops. But administration officials have steadfastly declined to indicate what that time horizon might be, saying only that it will be based on security conditions on the ground.

 

Perino said Monday that an agreement with "an aspirational time horizon" could include dates of when Iraqi security forces should be able to take control of given provinces. At the same time, she said: "It will not have any discussion about troop levels. The next commander in chief is going to have to make those decisions."

 

2010

 

[..]

What's changed? The sharp reduction in violence in Iraq - to the lowest level in four years - has made the country's leaders increasingly confident and more assertive about its sovereignty, giving rise to demands for a specific plan for American forces to leave.

What a bunch of shit. They've been asking us to leave since 2003!!!!

 

Here's a 2006 poll.

 

The Iraqis are not stupid: "Another new poll, scheduled to be released on Wednesday by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, found that 71 percent of Iraqis questioned want the Iraqi government to ask foreign forces to depart within a year. By large margins, though, Iraqis believed that the U.S. government would refuse the request, with 77 percent of those polled saying the United States intends keep permanent military bases in the country."

 

How about 2004? "Fifty-seven percent said the coalition should "leave immediately" rather than "stay longer" (36 percent). Among respondents in Shi'ite and Sunni Arab areas-- that is, leaving out Kurdish respondents-- the numbers favoring an immediate pullout were even higher: 61 percent to 30 percent among Shi'ites and 65 percent to 27 percent among Sunnis. In Baghdad, where U.S. forces are concentrated, the numbers were highest of all: 75 percent favored an immediate pullout, with only 21 percent opposed."

 

Need I go on? It has finally gotten so bad for the Iraqis that even the puppet PM we put in place wants the US to leave. I do not think it really really possible for them to tell us to "get the fuck out" with a louder voice.

 

So much for the GOP rationale that we are doing the Iraqis a favour, we are not empire-building nor occupying, and we'll leave when asked, eh?

 

And Bush gives them a "time horizon," whatever the fuck that's suppose to mean. Let's see, the NYT says that "President Bush agreed to 'a general time horizon' for withdrawing American troops in Iraq, the White House announced Friday, in a concession that reflected both progress in stabilizing Iraq and the depth of political opposition to an open-ended military presence in Iraq and at home."

 

Now as I understand the English language, this is a very open timeframe, as in "well, at least we will not stay forever." Doesn't mean much when you put it like that, except for some home-audience political dick-sucking, with (the most beautiful thing) the GOP capitulating to Obama's stance, but not really (still enough to show them as the hypocrites they are tho'). After all, Bush is on record as saying we will never leave Iraq as long as he's in charge.

 

Cheers,

SD

[JayT]

Last Friday on CNN, under questioning by Wolf Blitzer, John McCain called Obama's 16-month proposal "a pretty good timetable."

 

McCain's advisers also say that he is not opposed to talks with Iran and North Korea, and that he supported the administration's decision to send the undersecretary of state to Geneva last week for talks with Iran and European officials about Iran's nuclear program.

 

...Essentially, as the Bush administration has taken a more pragmatic approach to foreign policy, McCain has adhered to more hawkish positions. Whether the perception of McCain as being at odds with the administration is politically advantageous for him is a matter of debate among his supporters, but many of his more conservative advisers do not think it is a bad thing.

 

...But, "there's no doubt, particularly as Bush has adopted policies in the direction of Obama, that gives Obama bragging rights," said John R. Bolton, the Bush administration's former ambassador to the United nations, who has criticized the administration's talks with Iran and North Korea.

 

Tom Raum, The Associated Press