CTO Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I am sure in BAngkok and big towns - in villages - doubt it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unit731 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Are you really asking the board how to spend $5-$10? You think $5-$10 will make a BG's kids smarter? If you spend it on magic smart-stuff from the all-holy West? Might as well buy them some candy for $5-$10; that will at least make them happier. If you really want to help, you should consider their environment, which is quite different from the one you grew up in, at least if you grew up with decent teachers and schools and parents who engaged in reasonably brain-engaged conversation. Getting them some books in English is well-intentioned but totally useless in their context. It's like trying to make a pig sing. Here's what I strongly recommend: hire a local teacher (or some other relatively educated local person) to give the kids weekly tutoring sessions. Maybe 500 baht for an hour or two of the tutor's time. Once a week, or if that's too expensive, once a month. Have the tutor introduce some new activity or idea or thing to them at every session. Have the tutor engage them in conversations (as they grow up), teach them proper Thai, teach them how to ask and answer questions (difficult to find such a tutor in rural Thailand, I realize). I think that would have a tremendous effect, and make up for a lot of the kids' chronic family and social disadvantage. Otherwise, for $5 or $10 as a one-shot deal, you're really not going to do them much good. (By the way, can we assume that their basic needs, such as nutrition, are already met? It's hard to be a little philosopher when you're hungry or sick.) I agree. I, in another life, was a school teacher. The most important thing - other than the child wanting to learn - is the parent (s). Everything boils down to the parent. And the parent's attitude on education. Learning 'toys' are fine. A musical instrument is an excellent addition for any child (with lessons). Having a tutor teach English and other subjects is better. Or if child is real young a paid day care (school) that teaches English. But if Mom doesn't care. It's all a waste of good money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Disagree - seen many kids break through even against families that didn't want them too. I side with the teacher. Most kids spend more real time with teachers than parents. If a $5 gift sparked a discovery in a dormant bright kid, well spent $5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartThais Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 The most important thing - other than the child wanting to learn - is the parent (s). Actually, Stephen Levitt in his book Freakonomics makes a convincing case for why this conventional wisdom is wrong. He uses data from 20,000 children and their parents tracked from kindergarten through fifth grade. He then uses a statistical technique to show that "who the parents are" (e.g. their level of privilege) is much more important than the parenting technique itself. The parenting techniques are usually statistically insignificant. The truth is none of us know exactly what makes a child smarter or more intellectually curious. If I look back at my most passionate hobbies, I can usually trace it back to some seemingly insignificant event or coincidence. It doesn't seem all that outrageous to think a $5 toy might spark something. Here is a news article summary of his work. An entire chapter is devoted to it in his book. The whole book is a really interesting read. http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-05-03-parents-edit_x.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldFun Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 hmm I still like to believe 'the mozart tapes' did help though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weird Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I'd be inclined to say that if it's seemingly random events that help to path ones future then parenting techniques do help, but are not the end all. Parenting techniques would directly alter the rate of exposure to different elements and increase the odds that something they are aiming for is your spark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinalblue Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 HT, How can you say "the truth is no one knows what makes a person smarter or intellectually curious"? You reference an article/book that tries to estimate and explain what does and/or doesn't make you smarter.. Do you not believe in what they are saying has any truth to it? Rarely do things happen due to random events in staistically terms...yeah there is always one token here or there but that equates to 1% or winning the lottery or the rags to riches story... What's most riduculous is trying to extrapolate our american upbringing/experiences of what works or doesn't work to the Thailand culture and worse to a subculture of it (BG children)... Why would would western education let alone a single western toy have any impact at all in a culture that is practically the complete opposite of ours? Individualism, opportunity, competiteness, curiousity, assertiveness, initiative, regulatory compliance, challenging oneself, etc vs group thinking, social cooperation, collectivism, status quo, don't do anything out of the norm to stand out, cultural compliance, passivity, politeness, etc Unless that child is taken completely out of their future environment, they will grow up and into what surrounded them hour to hour day to day year to year...No random, isolated and non-repetitve event or object is going to change that.. They will look, speak, act like all other BG children. They will become your motorcycle taxi driver, farmer, massage parlor greeter, bus driver, nana bouncer or worse. They will be lucky if they can go to a commercial college and survive the fighting to become a so-called skilled technician and work on your car... A firetruck doesn't equate to a firemen, a tennis racket to a tennis player or a play medicine kit to a doctor.... Their sub-culture environment (which I believe is even a much stonger correlation than what we grow up in) will cement them to a life already pre-determined. You are a product of your environment, nothing more nothing less... I will take a tidal wave over a spark every time in statistically speaking terms... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartThais Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 How can you say "the truth is no one knows what makes a person smarter or intellectually curious"? You reference an article/book that tries to estimate and explain what does and/or doesn't make you smarter.. Do you not believe in what they are saying has any truth to it? I assume you are an expert social scientist (and therefore trained in statistics). They're using pairwise correlation precisely because they can only hope to isolate what *doesn't* work, not prove what *does* work. What's most riduculous is trying to extrapolate our american upbringing/experiences of what works or doesn't work to the Thailand culture and worse to a subculture of it (BG children)... Is it any more ridiculous than to assert sweeping theories based on one's gut feeling and observation alone without any proof at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinalblue Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 This interactive topic of parents, how a child learns, intelligence, success, etc is probably one of the most researched and pubicized topics in the social science field.. So I have a hard time believing no one knows. I bet hundreds of social scientists would argue with you on this point. Granted many differences of opinion, variations, some overlapping, some not, but many people believe in their eyes know exactly what does matter and what doesn't matter.. In your own article you referenced, the third paragraph form the bottom infers four indicators parents can do/have done that do produce higher test scores... So what is significantly different of giving a toy (hoping for a spark) and the authors' example of Mozart? They say it doesn't matter; it has no impact of how well the child will do...So why do you believe (or is it hope) otherwise? I basically interpret your toy and spark expression as to throwing underwear on the wall and hope it sticks. That is fine because that is about the odds of it...it might stick or it might not..isn't that what you are saying? It is the same mentality of why 90% of small businesses fail in the USA within the first year...Everyone has the same hope of success but only 10% have the ability, the knowledge, luck, skill, done their homework, market research, whatever it is to make it work... The bottom line is that time and monies are wasted and could have been spent doing something else or saved for another idea... ...like an OSHA-approved motorcycle helmet. The male kid of a BG raised in a village will have a far more likelihood of being injured or killed in an accident before the age of 25 than ever tasting the other side of Thai society. Granted, the kid probably wouldn't wear it because the absence of a role model.... You want specifics..Two years ago, I gathered a questionnaire from 120 first year medical students asking what their parents do? Not one said that the mother or father worked as a whore or K. singer. Granted they could have lied..yes that is a possibilty or even with a passing test score, they failed the "character interview" when the interviewers found out the parent's occupation. That is also a possibility... From my observation (even though it is not proof in your eyes), it is highly unlikely that off-spring of BGs will become first-year medical students at a Thai University using test scores and character interview as the selection methodology. I guess you could argue and say they chose engineering or economics...... Go with the motorcycle helmet, it is more practical and a far greater investment to potentially have an impact than a toy... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAX Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Well I think I am glad that my thread has made some people think , I have to agree that a helmet would clearly help a kid IF he was in a motorcycle accident , but if he was not in a accident would it help ? Same with a learning toy , whatever it is , its better than nothing , sure if the gene pool was different and the parents and grand parents were univeristy grads they would have a better chance , but thats not what we have here , we have parents that barely went to school and grandparents that went even less, So do you just give up ? Say if you cannot fix everything , then why try to fix anything ? I will try my little bit , if its pissing in the wind , so be it , Anyway keep up the arguing , but by a kid a book or a toy that might spark something they are not getting at home now. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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