Hiroshima

[Torneyboy]

Great pix well done..

[unit731]

...or the Japanese Unit 741 that did "tests" in China (Korea) on the locals...terrible!!!

 

 

I rest my case !

[playtheblues]

I visited Hiroshima and the museum ten years ago, together with a mid rank US diplomat. It was of course a nightmarish experience. My American companion did find a certain Japanese lack of taking the blame for the war in the exhibit, though, but maybe he just read this lack into it on the basis of his experience with some Japanese hard-liners..

 

As to the one million civilian victims of the atomic blasts and fire bombings combined, Robert McNamara has accused general Curtis LeMay of being highly disproportionate in his bombing campaigns ("The Fogs of War"). But then, all war actions are disproportionate, look at the recent Gaza campaign. And McNamara had issues with LeMay when McNamara was Secretary of Defence in the sixties.

 

I always try to avoid thinking about those 1 million civilian victims (but I am a pussy). They did not kill Chinese civilians or American POWs, they were (mostly) innocent. In 1945 Japan was totally exhausted and the population desillusioned with the military and the Emperor. On the other hand, after fifteen years of relentless war socialization they were resigned but still mentally equated surrended with the end of Japan, the final abyss.

 

Maybe at least the March 1945 firebombings and the atomic bombs were disproportionate but we will never know.

[Sakai]

Good summary, just that, even if the innocent Japanese people were desillusioned, they were, for most of them, still fanatically ready to defend the country.

 

Of course, the biggest problem were the 50 intact Imperial army divisions waiting for the invaders on the homeland islands.

 

Regarding the firebombings, they were partly justified by the fact that in 1945, Japanese industrial production was more and more taken in charge by small 'home factories' dispersed in the cities.

 

These bombings were not worse or better than Coventry, Dresden and others.

 

This is history, may we learn a bit from it.

[cavanami]

Many of the Japanese had sent their children out of Tokyo and to the mountain side, for their safety. My Japanese mother-in-law told me stories of the difficult times in Japan during WWII.

 

The people in Tokyo took shelter in Churches as the Allies would try not to bomb the Churches.

 

The whole time the war was going on, there was never talk by the people in Tokyo that they might surrender. They were fully committed to fight until they were dead.

 

My 1/2 Japanese- 1/2 American friend, Sam, was a 13 y.o. living in Tokyo when the war broke out. His father (US GI) was sent to Guam or somewhere to group up for the fighting. Sam's mother told him, you are no longer American, you are 100% Japanese. Sam lived the lie until he was drafted and was trained to be a glider pilot...then it was discovered he was 1/2 American! The Japs beat the fuck out of him for years and then since was just a kid, they let him go back to live with his mother, as he could do no damage to Japan and Japan had bigger things to worry about.

 

Sam never said it was a mistake for the US to drop the A-bomb and he was in the thick of it!

[Flashermac]

Don't forget that the Allies continued the saturation bombing of Germany almost to the very last day of the war, even after the major cities had all been destroyed and the German armies were in disarray and incapable of fighting. It was the civilians in many countries who paid the price in WWII.

 

Total war dead:

 

Military: 25,280,100

 

Civilian: 41,753,400

 

And some notes:

 

"The casualties listed here do not include civilian losses in the post war era (1946-53) due to war related famine, Soviet political repression and the expulsion of Germans after World War II."

 

"The deaths of 400,000 civilians deported during the Soviet annexations in 1939-40 are included with World War II casualties. Civilian losses in the postwar era (1946-47) due to famine and disease are not included with these losses."

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HeartThais]

The Fog of War is an amazing documentary. It is little more than an illustrated interview but wow... Definitely a must-see.

[playtheblues]

The Fog of War is an amazing documentary. It is little more than an illustrated interview but wow... Definitely a must-see.

 

 

I agree. And this is THE book to read about Japan after the defeat:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/07/04/reviews/990704.704stockt.html?_r=1

 

John W.Dower's "Embracing Defeat" (1999) has received up to ten distinguished rewards (including the Pulitzer one) and is already considered a classic.

[loner w/a boner]

FlasherMac:

 

You seem to know a lot about history, so I've got a question for ya.

 

I've heard this once on the radio during a talk show interview. Never heard it in school or anywhere else. Haven't got around to googling or otherwise researching it. But maybe you've heard something about it.

 

It goes like this:

 

The Germans had completed their hard water experiments and everything needed for a bomb. They placed all the parts on a Japanese sub (not a German U-boat). It was going to be assembled on the sub. Then the Japanese were going to detonate in on the US pacific fleet. But just a few days before they were ready, we hit Hiroshima. So, we nuked them just before they were gonna nuke us.

 

Ever hear anything like that???

 

Thx.

[Flashermac]

Nope. Sounds like an urban myth. German u-boats did actually sail as far as Japan and even Italian subs reached Asian ports. Never heard of any Japanese sub making it to Germany. The tale is extremely unlike, if not impossible. I thought the "hard water" was in Norway and some Allied agent or sympathiser spirited it away from the Nazis. I also am sure that if Adolf had the bomb he'd have dropped it on Stalin, not given it away to Tojo to play with.