Flashermac Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 The Japanese rightwing still claims the US and UK "forced" the war on Japan, and Japan thus was a victim. Uh ... what were the Japanese doing in China all those years before 7 Dec 1941? p.s. My father told me his battalion was on orders to return to the US from Europe, travel by rail to California, and then board ships for the invasion of Japan. He was delighted by the bomb drops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 I'll bet. Good for him! The displays in the museum in Hiroshima leave no doubt that the Japanese were the aggressors in the run-up. And the volunteers (mostly old men) were very candid about where the blame should be placed (and eager to talk to me in English, and help the kids with their English too). Good to see so many schoolchildren there, learning this. The place literally was overrun with them. Eventually the last of the nationalistic idiots will die. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Flashermac: They were in China, Korean, Mandchuria and Indochina as tourists, not as invaders of course. About the Yūshūkan (part of the Yasukuni shrine). Please do not burn it before taking out some very precious original Japanese weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Japanese "tourists" had mapped Thailand before the war. The kindly owner of a well known shop in Bangkok showed up on 8 Dec 1941 in his colonel's uniform. There was even a Thai film a few years ago about the Yuwachon Thahan - Pibunsongkram's military version of the Hitler Jugend. Some of them fought and died assisting the Thai troops against the Nipponese tourists on 8 Dec and the film is about this. One teenager in the story has a Japanese stepfather he is very loyal to. Then when Japan invades, he founds out daddy dearest is a spy. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 I've been to both Hiroshima and Nagasaki, very informative and a nice trip. I remember at the Peace Museum that the J's took a few jabs at the USA for dropping the bomb, with comments like, "...dropping the untested bomb on a civilian population...not knowing the effects...". My WW II vet/father was with me and he summed it up..."...they never should have started it..."! As for dropping the bombs...talk with the vets that were being tortured by the Japs in the prison camps and ask them if the bombs should have been dropped...you know the answer! As for invading Japan...it would have been a huge, bloody civilian massacre! A Japanese lady who was a teenager living in Tokyo stated that all the children were training to fight off an invasion with pointed sticks and they were fighting for the emperor, to their deaths!!! The USA has had the experience of "fighting" children in Nam...very lucky they didn't have to do the same in WW II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Apparently, the POW camps had orders to kill all prisoners and civilian internees if Japan was invaded. Look what the Nipponese gents did in Manila and multiply that by many times. I remember the Japanese "we were victims" camp took a heavy blow some years ago, when the Japanese government's own nuclear weapon development project was revealed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manila_Massacre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Near the Hiroshima epicenter was a prison holding USA pilots. Years ago, the Smithsonia Institue published a book on the bombing of Hiroshima. They claimed it wasn't necessary. The Firebombing of Tokyo had already left a toll on the nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Do you have the reference of this book please? I would be interested to read it although I must say I agree with the vast majority of historians saying that at least the first bomb was an absolute necessity. If we look at the facts, Japan was a ruined nation, industrial production almost completely destroyed, no more (imported) ressources, huge losses among the military and the population but still the will and ressources to fight. Japan was ready for a national sepuku. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiHome Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 There is a very good argument that the reason for the surrender was the USSR declaring war and invading Manchuria on Aug 9th, two days after Hiroshima and the same day as the Nagasaki bombing. I say a good argument because the up tell then, the huge civilian loss of life with the fire bombings had no impact on the military and government. The opposing argument is the fact that Hirohitoâ??s declaration of the intention to surrender mentioned the atomic bombs and not the Russians. The bombs were developed and were ready in time to use them. At the time, it must have seemed like a no brainer decision. TH PS â?? My father was on an LST in the naval invasion fleets at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. They were at Saipan training for the invasion when the Japan surrendered. I donâ??t think he ever though it was an unnecessary move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Glad for your father "No brainer": Remember Pearl Harbor but there was some opposition even among the government itself. The USSR attack was a disaster for Japan accordingly to the Imperial council's note but Japan's situation was already hopeless long before and the biggest problem was that Japan was still counting on the USSR to help negotiate peace. We tend to forget that the Japan of 1945 was in no way a democracy but a country directed by the Imperial council (in which the Emperor had now legal power). The peace party had been trying for some time to negotiate a peace but could not do anything for two reasons: . Unconditional surrender . The Zol/military Japan was a militarized state where civilian were always second to the military. USSR'attack jsut made things worse for Japan but not that much as: . Japan did not have anymore the means to repatriate its troops in Mandchuria/China/other theatres of war . USSR did not have the capability to threaten/invade the national territory therefore making the USA/UK the one and only threat Until the Emperor made his unconstitutional declaration to the Imperial council, Japan was on its way to its sepuku against the incoming operation downfall. USSR was merely the backstab, not the main threat as Japan government already knew for long that, had the war went on for some more years, the troops far from the national territory were 'lost troops' as Japan did not have anymore capability to carry them (no more transports, no more Imperial navy, no more fuel + the allies blockade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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