Army chief's tactics force election offer

[LizardKing]

Why is that so shocking? The reds got what they wanted: a forced early election circumventing parliamentary procedure (why not have their folks call a no-confidence vote?). Anyone who cares sees this as a perversion of democracy and a bad precedent for the future of Thailand.

[ThaiHome]

Indeed

 

"It’s interesting to see that, right now, the harshest criticism against the PM comes from within the Democratic Party and the PAD and not from his opposition PTP/UDD. Actually the PTP now praises him and the UDD refrain from personalizing the unsolved issues on Abhisit."

 

Democrat Party Throws Support Behind PM Road Map

 

The Democrat Party has concluded to throw its support behind the peace road map, which has set Nov 14 as a date for a new round of elections and Sept 15-30 as a possible date for House dissolution, proposed by PM Abhisit Vejjajiva.

 

PM Abhisit said he did not 'negotiate' with the red-shirt protesters but merely had offered a road map for the core leaders to consider as a way out of the current political crisis. The Democrats also reiterated that if the red-shirts refused to disperse, the PM also has the rights not to call for House dissolution.

 

 

-- Tan Network 2010-05-06

 

I think some Democrats were upset Abhisit did not dicuss with them first. The fact that he did not, and pretty much trapped all sides into not being able to disagree with his proposal just shows how good he really is.

TH

[KimDidMeGood]

Why is that so shocking? The reds got what they wanted: a forced early election circumventing parliamentary procedure (why not have their folks call a no-confidence vote?). Anyone who cares sees this as a perversion of democracy and a bad precedent for the future of Thailand.

Well... precedents... how about military coups? How about drafting a constitution under supervision of a military junta? And I'm convinced that without its Yellow precedent, the Red shirt phenomenon wouldn't have existed.

And about "perversion of democracy", the problem is that Thailand is NOT a democracy, it's in a painstaking march towards that, but it's nowhere near achieved. Heavy governmental censorship, military interference, unreliable judicial system... Thai "democracy" is at such a level of perversion that in the grand scheme of things, this episode is merely an anecdote.

[KimDidMeGood]

I think some Democrats were upset Abhisit did not dicuss with them first. The fact that he did not, and pretty much trapped all sides into not being able to disagree with his proposal just shows how good he really is.

TH

I also think that there's a generational divide in the way democrats view things. Guys like Abhisit and Sukhumband appear very moderate and not much into the "civil war" logic of old politics, moreover they are young, have a lot of time ahead and, if it were to happen, losing an election is not matter of political life or death.

Anyway I was not telling that Abhisit lost support from his party, just that the most vocal critics today are not those you'd expect to be.

[Flashermac]

Abhisit, Korn and Sukhumband are also western educated and much more worldly than the old style politicians. I suppose the reds see that as a disadvantage.

 

 

[KimDidMeGood]

^Mai kao chai "I suppose the reds see that as a disadvantage." ?

The Red top leaders are not half-bad at rhetoric either, albeit with a different target. Nattawut can deliver some pretty good speeches, for example. I guess its not a coincidence that he's very young too.

All in all, that emerging generation is a great sign for the future. Politicians who believe in the power of words, instead of the old bullying tactics.

[LizardKing]

Why is that so shocking? The reds got what they wanted: a forced early election circumventing parliamentary procedure (why not have their folks call a no-confidence vote?). Anyone who cares sees this as a perversion of democracy and a bad precedent for the future of Thailand.

Well... precedents... how about military coups? How about drafting a constitution under supervision of a military junta? And I'm convinced that without its Yellow precedent' date=' the Red shirt phenomenon wouldn't have existed.

And about "perversion of democracy", the problem is that Thailand is NOT a democracy, it's in a painstaking march towards that, but it's nowhere near achieved. Heavy governmental censorship, military interference, unreliable judicial system... Thai "democracy" is at such a level of perversion that in the grand scheme of things, this episode is merely an anecdote.[/quote']

Apples and oranges. Your logic is as flawed as the Israelis: look, they threw a rock so we'll send a rocket. The yellows closed the airport, so the reds close the city and murder a bunch of people. You'll never get anywhere condoning that shit -- it has gotta stop. By force if necessary. As soon as a group gets what it wants, you've created a monster. Now that monster is even bigger because it got what it wanted twice now. Red, yellow, it doesn't matter.

 

"Heavy governmental censorship, military interference, unreliable judicial system... Thai "democracy" is at such a level of perversion that in the grand scheme of things, this episode is merely an anecdote." Hmmmm, I could say the *exact* same thing about the USA (except the military bit, maybe). You work around it, legally. Either you believe in the system or you have anarchy.

[LizardKing]

Nattawut can deliver some pretty good speeches...Politicians who believe in the power of words, instead of the old bullying tactics.

Huh? Let's review: red shirts have closed down the city and murdered a bunch of people because they cannot wait until the elections are due nor be arsed to follow proper procedure and call a no confidence vote.

 

Nuttawut is a leader of the red shirts.

 

Just how the fuck is that NOT bullying tactics by Nuttawut and all the other reds?

 

Sheesh.

[KimDidMeGood]

"Heavy governmental censorship, military interference, unreliable judicial system... Thai "democracy" is at such a level of perversion that in the grand scheme of things, this episode is merely an anecdote." Hmmmm, I could say the *exact* same thing about the USA (except the military bit, maybe). You work around it, legally. Either you believe in the system or you have anarchy.

What are you talking about? How can it be considered that the US government uses censorship to hinder free speech and transparency? To what extent do you consider that the US judicial system is unreliable?

For people to believe in the system, they need reasonable assurance that the system works properly and is not rigged to protect the poo-bahs through bribes, government pressure et al.

[Hardy641]

I would say most wars and conflicts have a religious cause.

 

 

Yep. Just think of the American Civil War' date=' the Spanish-American War, the Boer War, WWI, WWII, the Korean War, Vietnam, the Iraq-Iran War etc.

[/quote']

 

All of the Crusades, The thiry years war, The Troubles in Ireland, Rwanda 1994, Boznia-Herzegovina (and by extension Kosovo), The Ivory Coast civil wars, Cyprus, East Timor civil war, Sri Lankan civil war, Current Iraqi civil war, Iraq vs, Iran, Hezbollah vs. Israel, Arabian world vs. Israel, Kashmir civil war, Chechnya civil war, Sudan and the crusades the church did through the centuries of imperialism.....