Very Interesting and, IMHO, Balanced Article on Thailand

[ThaiHome]

So, you think the actual clips I showed from PTV are ok to show on national television and do not constitute incitement to cause violence? That a channel that continues to show such stuff should not be banned? How long would such a channel last in any western country?

 

There is no way this is in the same class as when Sondhi used to get on ASTV and call Samak or Somchai all sorts of really creative names.

 

As I said, show me clips from ASTV that even come close.

 

TH

 

[Gadfly]

The 2008 PAD proposal to have 70% of the Senate appointed (not the house of representatives) went nowhere

No - PAD proposed to have 70% of the house of representatives appointed. Check. The Senate is already half appointed (by whom one should ask).

 

If you look at the current makeup of the house, you can see that the PPP is steadaly losing seats. There are rumors that some 20 or more MP's from a north eastern faction are considering joining the BJP making it even more unlikely the PPP will be able to even form a coailition after the next election.

 

If true, the governing coalition should be comfortable calling elections now. It would shore up their legitimacy, something they clearly lack now.

 

We can quibble about details, but the fact is this government only came into power because of a coup in 2006 and machinations to remove every government that was elected into power after that coup. Just one example (other come to mind); removing a PM for doing a cooking show - come on. Maybe you disagree, but the rest of the world and a good part of Thailand don't believe this government is legitimate.

 

Even the Wall Street Journal , hardly a bastion of liberal naiveté, questions the legitimacy of the current government and is pressing for early elections. If you are right, and this government really does enjoy popular support, then it has nothing to lose by calling an election now or in the next few months.

 

Indeed, after what happened in May it is everything to gain by calling early elections if, as you claim, it is legitimate. I fear that if they don't act rationally (or are forced to act rationally), things here will get worse.

 

Demonizing the reds is not reconciliation. Nor is labeling your political opponents "terrorists".

 

But calling early elections now is a solid and confident step in the direction of reconciliation. If this government wants to establish its legitimacy in the world's eyes (do you know what the foreign diplomatic community here thinks of the current government and the yellows?), it's needs to take that step now and cut the other crap.

[LizardKing]

If true, the governing coalition should be comfortable calling elections now. It would shore up their legitimacy, something they clearly lack now.

 

Much like the Obama birth certificate bullshit in the US, giving in to crackpots is not a good precedent to set. Holding elections when they are scheduled is fine and in no way (other than in the crackpot's mind) de-legitimizes the government.

 

Just one example (other come to mind); removing a PM for doing a cooking show - come on.

And a sitting US President got impeached for getting a blow job. We both know that neither is the case, so just stop making an ass out of yourself. You are too smart for that.

 

BTW, the WSJ barely knows fuck-all about US government. Hardly a good source for info on the intricacies of Thai government.

[Sporty]

 

If true, the governing coalition should be comfortable calling elections now. Indeed, after what happened in May it is everything to gain by calling early elections if, as you claim, it is legitimate. I fear that if they don't act rationally (or are forced to act rationally), things here will get worse.

 

STOP WHINING (

), your beating a dead horse, its not gonna happen. ELECTIONS, will come when the business is finished, or the end of 2011, if the country is stable, or delayed, if as today. This Government, has business to finish, to clear the way, to a better future for Thailand, to make it a Thaksin Shinawatra, FREE ZONE.

 

[color:red]"(or are forced to act rationally)"[/color] Really do not know what that means. BUT, I am thinking you mean a Civil War, well, if that is the case, lets have at it. Better than to give into Thugs, Terrorist and Puppets of Thaksin. NOW, we have a good idea of the Position of the ARMY. YOU know as ROBERT AMSTERDAM calls them the ROYALIST ARMY.

 

Demonizing the reds is not reconciliation. Nor is labeling your political opponents "terrorists".

 

THEY ARE TERRORIST, NO IFS, ANS OR BUTS ABOUT IT.

 

But calling early elections now is a solid and confident step in the direction of reconciliation. If this government wants to establish its legitimacy in the world's eyes (do you know what the foreign diplomatic community here thinks of the current government and the yellows?), it's needs to take that step now and cut the other crap.

 

NOW THAT IS A BUNCH OF HORSE SHIT!

 

[color:red]ARREST, PROSECUTE, SENTENCE the REDS and their Financial Supporters, is what is needed, at this time![/color]

[ThaiHome]

You are correct, the PAD proposal was for a 70/30 split for the entire Parliament

 

I’m not going to bother refuting all your new points as you haven’t addressed my response to the your first set, other then pointing out I was incorrect in the PAD proposal.

 

Please, again review the clips from PTV and then tell me about freedom of the media, calling your political opponents “terrorist†and reconciliation.

 

Oh, got a much better campaign poster now

TH

 

[Gadfly]

I was right about the

70/30 split for the entire Parliament

It just wasn't the Senate.

 

Let's pause here for a moment and consider what that says about the current government and their confidence about winning elections. They want the ability to appoint 70% of the MPs and Senators. They want the ability to control the Parliament -both houses - irrespective of how Thais vote.

 

It doesn't sound as though even they believe they enjoy popular support. Indeed, recognizing they don't have popular support, they want a system where they get to appoint the legislature irrespective of how Thais vote.

 

Your other points? About many members of the Red leadership? About Thaksin? Since I don't have much good to say about any of them, I doubt that I disagree. In fact, back when some members of this board were ardent Thaksin supporters, I was calling him a fascist. I can say it again if you'd like.

 

I also agree that those Red leaders who called for arson and supported the armed black shirt thugs who shot at the army are criminals. They aren't terrorists, but they are certainly serious criminals.

 

But the Reds are more than these thugs. There is a real schism in Thai society. And this government pretend efforts at reconciliation are only making things worse.

 

The middle ground - where you can criticize both sides - is getting narrower and this government is trying real hard to force everyone, farangs and Thais, to take a side, but I am not going to do it. There is plenty of blame here to pass around.

 

But the fact is that the government is in power. And with that power comes the power to be oppressive. (Would some of the Red leadership, such as Thaksin, do the same if they were in power. Yes. But so what. That doesn't justify what we're seeing now.) They are the ones shutting down the press, websites and TV shows.

 

Nearly 90 people died, and the vast majority were protestors. I have seen the propaganda, and its pretty flimsy. This whole mess was mishandled from the outset.

 

If they believe in democracy, which they claim they do, they need to call elections now. If they want to have any chance of winning, they are going to have to make some genuine gestures of reconciliation and not simply pander to power brokers in Bangkok.

 

But I don't think we're going to see that. Instead, we'll see a continued and drawn out crisis with more businesses destroyed and more blood spilt. If you hold the reigns of government - particularly when you didn't come to power legitimately - you are responsible when this occurs.

[Flashermac]

<< Let's pause here for a moment and consider what that says about the current government and their confidence about winning elections. They want the ability to appoint 70% of the MPs and Senators. They want the ability to control the Parliament -both houses - irrespective of how Thais vote. >>

 

 

So you are saying this is a yellow shirt government and Sondhi is the PM.

 

 

[LizardKing]

Ya know, Gaddie, you'd get a lot more respect for your opinions of you just said you support the Reds. This point is obvious and you couching it in silly terms is just embarassing.

 

Make a stand man! Don't be a pussy or a Western news anchor who needs to play both sides.

[Sporty]

Ya know, Gaddie, you'd get a lot more respect for your opinions of you just said you support the Reds. This point is obvious and you couching it in silly terms is just embarassing.

 

Make a stand man! Don't be a pussy or a Western news anchor who needs to play both sides.

 

He has been without a bean bag, since the beginning of the thread, maybe he is post-op. Talking balance, yet whining the Red Points, over and over.

[BaronTT]

Your solution is to hold elections, which in effect, means mob rule. Let the terrorists win!

 

 

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/186304/by-election-dirty-tricks-begin

 

 

By-election 'dirty tricks' begin

 

* Published: 16/07/2010 at 12:00 AM

* Newspaper section: News

 

The Democrat Party claims vote buying and intimidation have already begun in the lead-up to the by-election in Bangkok's Constituency 6 on July 25.

 

Bangkok MP Samai Charoenchang, who is supervising the party's campaign for the by-election, alleged yesterday attempts were being made to pay 500 baht to eligible voters in communities including the Ua Arthorn and Kankheha housing estates.

 

He said each community leader and former community leader has received money that is to be "distributed" to residents.

 

Mr Samai said threats continue to be made against Democrat candidate Panich Vikitsreth.

 

A group of people banged on the police vehicle that took Mr Panich to the district office on the day he registered his candidacy and when he was about to start his campaign.

 

He has also received threatening phone calls and other callers have cursed him.

 

His campaign posters are being vandalised.

 

Prathuang Chom-ngam, the Election Commission's Bangkok chief, said his office has turned down a Puea Thai Party suggestion that the commission keep ballot boxes at police stations instead of the district offices for better safety.

 

Mr Prathuang said the Corrections Department has informed the EC's Bangkok branch that it has allowed Puea Thai members to visit detained Puea Thai candidate Korkaew Pikulthong to record speeches for playing on the campaign trail.

 

Mr Korkaew is among the red shirt protest leaders detained on charges of terrorism.

 

Democrat MPs yesterday discussed their preparations for the by-election.

 

Party deputy spokesman Warong Detkitwikrom said Democrat secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban has asked all party MPs to help Mr Panich campaign for votes.

 

However, Mr Suthep and Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva are not sure if they should join the campaign because of the safety risk.

 

Puea Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit yesterday filed a libel lawsuit in the Criminal Court against Democrat chief adviser Chuan Leekpai.

 

Mr Prompong accused Mr Chuan of calling him a liar during a media interview.

 

Mr Prompong earlier allegedly hinted that a senior Democrat with the initial "Ch" had tried to rig the by-election. The court will examine the details of the lawsuit on Aug 16.