Very Interesting and, IMHO, Balanced Article on Thailand

[LizardKing]

LOL, ya, individuality and independence as long as it is what they want.

 

Let's pull your Wiki thing apart:

[color:blue]# 5 Core tenets

* 5.1 Nationalism

o 5.1.1 Foreign policy[/color]

 

American exceptionalism? American can do no wrong, and if you critize us you are our enemy (can you say France in the run up to Iraq)? The best foreign policy is preemptive strikes on people who might hurt us, but haven't in the past?

 

Up, that's a Palin wingnut.

 

[color:blue]* 5.2 Authoritarianism

* 5.3 Social Darwinism

* 5.4 Social interventionism

o 5.4.1 Indoctrination

o 5.4.2 Abortion, eugenics and euthanasia

o 5.4.3 Culture, gender and sexuality[/color]

 

God forbid you are born with a vagina, for instance. They want to control that. Or if you are gay and want to get married. No freedom there. Smoker? Yer fucked. Not a Xtian, well better be happy with it shoved it down your throat cuz no freedom from it. Passing laws that allow, ney encourage, routine violations of the 4th amendment based upon someone's skin color. Firm belief that if you're poor, it is your own fault and God must want it that way (and vice versa) so no help for you "lazy gits." FFS, just recently we've had wingnut congressmen saying that people who are unemployment don't deserve it and just too lazy to get a job (because ys, $280/wk is a fine replacement for a $60k/yr job) .

 

Yup, once again Palinite wingnuts.

[color:blue]

* 5.5 Economic policies

o 5.5.1 National corporatism, national socialism and national syndicalism

o 5.5.2 Economic planning

o 5.5.3 Social welfare[/color]

 

Deregulation, allowing full free markets. This helps one company, as the end game of capitalism is one winner. Now we have more monopolies that back the the bad old days when Teddy broke them all up. With the passing of Citizen's United, corporations are full people with full rights to buy any politician they want, with no shame because it is now legal. Laws for the corps to defend the corps at the expense of the people are what they are all about; nowadays they don't even hide it because the brainwashing is so complete.

 

Uh-huh.

 

[color:blue]# 6 Racism and racialism[/color]

Already touched upon a couple of steps above re: 4th amendment. And the battle cry of "we want our country back" is nothing but code for racism (not to mention the birth certificate thing).

 

No arguing around it.

 

So yup, I'm pretty comfortable in calling Palinites/teabaggers fascists, even by your standards, thank you very much.

 

And explain to me just how it is that EVERY red state takes more in federal aid than gives back in taxes, yet bitches about paying taxes and claims to be independent. That's a joke! Right up there with the wingnut battle cry: "Keep your government hands off my Medicare." Independent my ass! Selfish. Yes. As in "I've got mine, so fuck the rest of you," is more like it.

 

Dude, she is so aweinspiringly stupid that I can barley get through one of her "speeches" let aloe read "her" book.

 

And pretty hard to look at her record. Record of what? Spending a small Alaska town into millions of debt? A history of scandal, vendetta and (to use a wingnut fav) "wealth redistriubtion" in less than two years as governor of a state that doesn't rank in the top five population-wise as the US's biggest cities (let alone Obama's senate district) but she couldn't even handle that?

 

You betcha!

 

As I said, the same blind following of a "charismatic figure" with no inkling as to what's going on nor how they are being used. Sounds just like the Thai red-shirts to me.

 

But even with that last paragraph we are WAY off topic now. Continue via PM if you want to, but there's nothing more to say really.

[iuytrede]

"How can someone say they are describing Thai politics and not mention once, except to describe one as “one of Thailand’s more unsavory politicians†the role of the rural faction leaders?"

 

You say this again and again.

Would you mind to describe the role of the rural faction leaders?

[Sporty]

"How can someone say they are describing Thai politics and not mention once, except to describe one as “one of Thailand’s more unsavory politicians†the role of the rural faction leaders?"

 

You say this again and again.

Would you mind to describe the role of the rural faction leaders?

 

The title, was not enough of a clue ?

 

"Thoughts on Thailand’s Turmoil, by James Stent"

 

The Thailand turmoil, is all about Politics.

 

Much of the very carful language in the article, is meant, to create sympathy, for Thaksin and the poor protestors, without saying it. Not to mention, how much he duped, the rural poor. The rural faction leaders, are those who are paid (100,000 baht, I am told), to fill a bus and send them to Bangkok.

[Old Hippie]

"...the battle cry of "we want our country back" is nothing but code for racism (not to mention the birth certificate thing).

 

No arguing around it...."

 

 

I'll argue about it...wanting to control illegal immigration is not racist, neither is wanting to take the country back from the evil greedy scum (politicians, corporate CEOs etc...) we were foolish enough to let steal it from us, from right under our noses! I do agree the "birthers" and their Birth certificate crap is ridicules.

 

Valid point about the red shirts=the teabaggers...in some/many ways. Both honestly feel, or have been led to feel? that they are being held down by another. The red shirts feel it is the "rich elite" who hold them down, while the teabaggers have this idea that somehow the poor are holding them down...

 

Real or perceived or manipulated, both groups honestly believe they are right. This is what is often over looked. I could give the red shirts a lot more slack on this, where as the teabaggers are just plain fucked.

 

 

[iuytrede]

"The rural faction leaders, are those who are paid (100,000 baht, I am told), to fill a bus and send them to Bangkok."

 

That's all?

Just this primitive allegation that we have heard so many times from the yellow shirts and their Thai and farang sympathizers?

 

From TH's posts over the last months I got the impression that he might actually know and understand something about Thai society that I do not quite understand. Something not quite as simplistic as this answer, and something that I would like to hear.

 

[ThaiHome]

When I first came to Thailand to work in 2001, it was just in time for that election. My introduction to local Thai politics at that time was due to my wife’s uncle running for the TAO. This was a big deal and all the relatives, including her, that lived away from the village were called back to vote for him. We spent that weekend in the village and I got an interesting view into local politics. The Uncle won, defeating the next door neighbor which caused some strain in relations. Over the next 4 years had several opportunities to see the uncle and his “advisors†discussing various ways to spend the money that came through the TAO as well as the million baht village fund that as a member of the TAO the uncle got a say in the approval of loans. Was quite educational to see how the largess was spread around and who got what. Local districts are very complicated places.

 

But I still had little idea what was going on at the national level, and Thaksin was just a name in the newspaper. I did note and asked about the election of MP’s that year, but was told that didn’t matter as everyone votes for “Sanohâ€Â. Asking who Sanoh was seemed to make everyone uncomfortable and all that was said was he owns everything and you don’t cross him.

 

In the 2005 election, we again got caught up in the TAO contest. This time, my wife’s brother decided he wanted to run, even though the uncle was still running. My wife took the easy way out and did not vote and both the uncle and brother lost with the neighbor winning. That was end of the families foray into politics.

 

I started getting interested in Thai national politics around the time the PAD started demonstrating and finally Thaksin dissolved the Parliament and called a snap election in early 2006. What got to me was the name “Sanoh†kept coming up and I recognized it as the person everyone was so afraid of in the village. I kept after my wife to tell me what she knew. Turns out, for long time, the Tienthong family has controlled the area. They own the building supply business, the trucking company, the construction company, and you sell your farm produce to them. Many rumors of people disappearing if they question or stand up to them. In the elections, they don’t even have to buy the votes, everyone votes the right way.

 

It is very difficult to find much about the factions in English, if you can read Thai, you can probably find a ton of stuff. But if you pay attention to what is said in English articles on Thai politics, it is easy to see how the factions dominate Thai politics.

 

The TRT was born as a party created out of some 11 factions that Thaksin brought together. This Wiki TRT article describes some of them. It is very dated many of the factions have since gone on to form own parties or joined other parties. The core factions from the North and Northeast mostly remain in the PTP today and some of the names you see you will reconize from as either PT MP's or UDD leaders.

TRT Factions

 

This site has some interesting information on various political heavy weights. It is worth the time to read to biographies of the people they list. Worth noting the page on Sanoh does not work.

Thai Politics

The page on Newin describes how it works very well:

 

Regardless of how perfect Thai Constitution is, still in the base of electoral process are the local political patrons together with arrogant officials and mafia bosses who take advantage of the rural-based, poor and ill-educated voters, 40 million or so of them. These patronage-based electocracy have Parliament and the executive branch in their palms.

 

In political terms, whenever there is an election, we say it nicely that finally the voice of the people has been heard because a voter has cast a ballot. But in reality, Thai politics are rigged. No matter political reforms, changes or improvements, or even a coup d'état, the old politico faces will return to haunt the nation. For the time being, the Thai "democracy" is hopeless.

 

In real terms, rural Thais learned the hard way, unless they sold their votes at election times, they would have no other tangible benefits from the system. And they, the electorate majority, are the rock-solid electoral base that secured the victory of the local politico. Provincial strongman, typically a faction leader, simply sells his team of MPs to the highest bidder.

 

Newin Chidchob along with Banharn Silpa-archa, Suthep Thuagsuban, Pinij Jarusombat, Snoh Thiengthong, Somsak Thepsuthin, Suwat Liptapalop, as well Thaksin Shinawatra and others are at the front line to benefit from patronage-based Thai political system.

 

So yes, I think I do understand something about Thai society that you might not quite understand, but it is not that hard to learn about it, you just have to pay attention and read between the lines on what is said.

TH

[Nervous God]

Well I'll take a different stand, here in the village at the second election, Thaksin still hadn;t built a road that was promised, village voted for TRT at the national level, and at a seperate election voted another party, TRT understood, and responded by building the road,

 

The whole "Buy a vote" is bunk, IF it's 500 baht as yellow so often proclaim, it doesn't even cover the cost of a bus fair home.

 

Frankly there is now a lot more movement, and I hope more, where the locals aren't following blindly party line.

 

The sad thing is, the villagers did and caste ballets against TRT when it gave them power to do so.

 

The HUGE mistake was not the coup, rather the continually martyring of Thaksin,

 

If the people wanting power, yellow et al had let THaksin run, he would have eventually given enough rope to Democrats to win honestly, people and democracy would have worked,

 

By continually pulling the rug from under the feet of people voting, they've stopped questioning TRT/Thaksin and now more than ever follow him, a very stoopid thing the yellow brigade did.

[ThaiHome]

ND, I do agree that there is more movement of local people not following the "party line", but I wouldn't call it a "party line" so much as what the local faction wants them to vote for.

 

Unfortunately, what it has now evolved to they vote for the candidate that promises to bring home the most bacon which allows for factions to poach on each others traditional territories.

 

I also agree that the vote buying is over stated, as most factions do not have to actually pay cash for the votes. But that does not anyway take away from the power of the factions to deliver blocks of votes on demand.

 

When you say when given the chance they voted against the TRT are you talking about the proportional voting in 2007 where when given the chance to vote for a party and not a candidate and all the local pressure that comes with it, the Democrats and PPP virtually tied and 14 million (40%)?

 

TH

 

[Nervous God]

<>

 

I'd agree with that having witnessed personally the politics in Farang hand up close and personal, the "Faction" delivers!

 

No - it was the vote before that oddly, where they "punished" TRT for not keeping a promise.

 

But your thoughts on how things would have played out if the "Yellows" hadn't kept hounding Thaksin and TRT ex politically? I think Thailand would be stronger, let people see their heros fall.

 

Hawk in Australia fell, lots of very popular leaders fall eventually, I think that would have made the country stronger, instead of continually punishing the voters by the tactics used the last 4 years

[ThaiHome]

<>

 

I'd agree with that having witnessed personally the politics in Farang hand up close and personal, the "Faction" delivers!

 

No - it was the vote before that oddly, where they "punished" TRT for not keeping a promise.

 

But your thoughts on how things would have played out if the "Yellows" hadn't kept hounding Thaksin and TRT ex politically? I think Thailand would be stronger, let people see their heros fall.

 

Hawk in Australia fell, lots of very popular leaders fall eventually, I think that would have made the country stronger, instead of continually punishing the voters by the tactics used the last 4 years

 

If Thaksin had not called the snap election in 2006? I think the TRT would have come apart in a very ugly way but it would have taken several years to play out. Many of the factions, particularly Sanoh, were not happy at all with being marginalized (i.e. cut of the pie) and were making noises by early 2006 about quitting the TRT and forming a new party.

 

Thaksin called the snap election with only some 45 days notice to keep them form doing so as the constitution required a candidate to be a member of the party for 90 days before the election. It was a suicide decision to try and stay in charge brought on by both his inability to take the criticism from the PAD and the middle class about the corruption and selling Shin and trying to keep the factions in line. The Democrats and the others called his bluff by boycotting it and throwing the whole thing into disarray.

 

When he couldn’t seat a parliament he controlled he just lost the plot completely at that point. Whether you agree with the coup or not, objectively you have to understand why the Army stepped in, things were seriously spiraling out of control.

TH