When Somchai Pulls the Trigger

[Wallenda]

I hope it's cool to repost this column by Stickman (if not let me know and I'll edit it to be the link only). I'm putting it here to hopefully get some feedback on what's really going on in these situations -- Stick seems to conclude that a certain something is the cause, though he doesn't very explicitly state it. But I'm not totally sure he's right.

 

My own comments will be in my next post here.

 

We all start with a rosy red perspective of Thailand. Sadly, it doesn't last forever. Eventually Somchai catches up with us. Even the Thai apologists one day have that moment when their world changes, the moment from which they will never quite look at Thailand the same way again. It's the moment that Somchai pulls the trigger.

 

It happened to a friend of mine a few weeks ago. He loves his life in Thailand but when he was shown the door by his employer for no good reason other than they wished to get rid of all of the foreign staff and replace them with local staff to reduce the cost of salaries, I pointed out to him that under Thai labour law they had to compensate him. Yep, he was due a pay off. Thai employers can let staff go for any reason, or no reason whatsoever, but staff are entitled to be compensated under Thai employment law. My pal composed a letter to management outlining the situation and seeking the monies that was rightly owed to him. They were incensed at his letter, couldn't understand how he could possibly know about such a law and refused to pay. Not only that, they decided to play hardball. They started making threats to him including contacting his new employer, basically the sort of actions that would have brought a large grin to a defamation lawyer's face. But the bottom line is that he wishes to continue to live in Thailand and to do that he needs a job. In the town he resides there just aren't the employment options you have in Bangkok so he was forced to eat humble pie. His old school forced him to sign a disclaimer that he had no rights to make any claim against them for any monies owing or any grievance of any sort. He had rights entitled to him as a work permit-holding, tax-paying foreigner, but he was being denied them by a school which was willing to bank on the fact that as a foreigner he had a certain vulnerability. The whole incident upset him much more than the road accident he had years earlier where he his vehicle was hit by a Thai driver who was at fault but he ended up being fined by the police! Somchai pulled the trigger!

 

Studying Thai full-time I met many interesting characters and one such fellow was an Italian-born Australian. He loved Thailand, loved his life here and would always say how much better Thailand was than either of his homes, Italy or Australia. Every day he would tell us wonderful Thailand was and how he didn't miss his life in Australia one little bit. I swear that the Thai teachers loved him for the massive praise he heaped every day on the Kingdom. But that all changed one day when he came to school most upset. It turned out that the neighbour's dog had bitten him resulting in a nasty wound to his leg. He went to the hospital to get the wound cleaned and stitched up and was put on a course of anti-rabies injections. When he went to see the neighbour to talk to them about meeting the modest cost of his medical bills, neighbours he knew well and neighbours whose kids he had given free English lessons to, he was turned away. He was told that he was not welcome in their home ever again! We sat there early one morning in the language school listening as he explained to the teacher what had happened and asked them for their opinion. The teacher asked him why he was making trouble and chastised him for approaching the neighbours, which as it turned out was apparently a similar response to what his (Thai) wife had said. From the glowing words the teachers had about him he suddenly became an outcast as the Thai teachers turned against him. I distinctly remember the teacher in that particular module virtually ignoring him and refusing to speak directly with him in discussions. Not just his mood, but his whole demeanour changed markedly. You never heard him say another positive about Thailand again. I do recall him holding court in the language school's cafeteria telling all who cared to listen about how uncivilized the country is! Somchai had pulled the trigger!

 

Sometimes it takes a couple of incidents and is the accumulative effect of more than one run in with Somchai that turns you. A mate was riding his motorbike from his home in rural Khon Kaen into town when a woman did a u-turn right in front of him. He couldn't avoid the collision and his bike hit her car sending him flying. He landed on the ground, many metres away from her. The youngish woman got out of her car and showed not one little bit of interest in him or his welfare. He felt that she seemed most upset at the damage to her car. As he lay there, writhing on the ground in pain, with a broken collar bone and some nasty gashes and cuts, she stood examining the damage to her car while casting resentful looks at my mate on the ground. Somchai didn't pull the trigger that day, but he did a month later when the same mate went to collect the repaired bike. On his way back home, he was just outside of the village where he had built a house for his wife and where he supports a number of people in a large extended family, as well as provide expertise assisting people with the repair and upkeep of various properties, all out of the goodness of his heart. The antics of some fools on the road required him to swerve to avoid colliding with them and he ended up down a ditch off the side of the road. With injuries that hadn't healed 100% and a new bunch of injuries, he ended up a total mess and was forced off work for a period. But what hurt him just as much was the reaction of the people in his village who couldn't believe that he had apportioned blame on some of the locals. He was looked at in a different light, despite having done so much for the village. Again, Somchai pulled the trigger.

 

What is so sad about these situations is the way each of the guys involved had integrated into Thai society. Each had a Thai wife, a respectable woman who neighbours would be happy to have living next door. One of the three guys is a devout Buddhist. One has a child in Thailand and is very community minded, having much pride in all of the voluntary work he has done to help the local Thais. One has taken responsibility for his wife's children by her first husband and has used his influence to get them into one of the best schools in town and is paying the school fees, doing everything he can to give the girl every chance at a bright future. These are senior, respectable Westerners living a quiet life and doing good things for the community they lived in and Thailand as a whole. Two don't even drink. But that counted for nothing.

 

There are reasons why you hear the same old mantras repeated again and again in expat circles, around the bars as well as online. "Don't invest / bring / keep more money in Thailand than you can afford to lose or walk away from." "If you want to make a small fortune, start with a large fortune and invest it in Thailand."

 

When Somchai finally does pull the trigger, it's a little bit like finding out that your wife has been sucking the guy next door's cock. You want to throttle her and leave her, but with a couple of kids with her you're so heavily invested that you try and overcome it even though you know things will never be the same again.

 

Foreigners living in Thailand aren't Thai and never will be Thai. We will never have quite the same rights as Thais and we will never be looked at quite the same. Even if we have friends with influence, and we surround ourselves in cotton wool, we'll always be that bit more vulnerable than a Thai would. Some people can live with that. Some can't. And some don't even realise that that is just the way things are here.

 

You're farang and no matter how hard you try, you'll never be Thai.

 

 

[Flashermac]

I was let go years back when the Min of Education decided to stop all foreign contracts to save money. I'd been paying in to a government programme for several years and could have got the money back - IF THEY HAD TOLD ME IN TIME. Nobody did and it cost me at least 60,000 baht. I don't think it was intentional, just a matter of they didn't care. Still, Somchai did NOT pull the trigger. The same thing could have happened in my own country.

 

I think Stick was in a bad mood, or else he just needed something to fill up his column and decided to sound like Bernard Trink on a rant.

 

 

p.s. However, my wife has warned me about what one says at work. Thais often have various cliques at work. Piss one off and you may be finished there. She said she would never even comment if someone complained to her about someone else. They may be setting you up! Since in education the majority of people will be women, it can get very catty.

 

 

 

[Wallenda]

So we have 3 situations: 6 months severance pay for a layoff, dog bite compensation and motorbike accident blame.

 

Regarding the severance situation, the one obvious question that jumps out at me is, regardless of whether the law exists or not, what really happens in real life in Thailand? (I don't live there, I have no idea) Do Thai workers normally get this 6 months severance if they're laid off? I'm very surprised a law like that is on the books honestly. It just seems so overly generous, and not what you'd expect in a place like Thailand. But the way all the Thais turned against this teacher, it just makes me think that it's possible at least that there's a side of this that Stick and his friend are blind to. And I guess that could be that no Thai would go and insist on that 6 months' severance either, and that if one did, he'd be looked down upon as a troublemaker.

 

But am I reading between the lines correctly about Stick's main point here, that the Thais in these situations think foreigners aren't entitled to equal treatment, in other words that they're being "Thai supremacist", and expecting that basic rights that they have shouldn't apply to foreigners?

 

I would say that in the first situation, if Thais would look down on one of their own who insisted on his 6 months' severance, then it would make perfect sense that they'd do the same to a foreigner. That would make it merely a cultural difference.

 

In the 2nd situation, of course in our own countries, it would be reasonable to request compensation for the bite by the neighbors' dog. But would it be expected in Thailand, that's the key question. (and also, if I remember cases on CourtTV, I think situations like that one often get contentious in our own countries too) But this might also just be a cultural difference.

 

In the 3rd situation, on my first reading it did seem as if those traffic accident situations at least were pretty clear cut in favor of the foreigner. But then on 2nd thought it does seem as if there's room for gray-area in the 2nd situation -- for example, was the foreigner speeding when he was on his way home? We're only getting the foreigner's version of the story, which might be omitting some key details, so I'm not sure I can just take him at his word and therefore agree with Stick's point here either.

 

I wish he'd written a bit more detail about these situations, at least to eliminate the room for doubt like the points I mention here.

 

But maybe expats here can chime in and let me know how it works in Thailand.

 

Do Thais really get 6 month severance? Would they turn on one of their own in that same situation, the way they did on this guy?

 

If a Thai got bit by his neigbhor's dog, would he expect the neighbor to compensate him for his medical bill? How would the neighbor likely react if he did?

 

Or is it just true that Thais deny foreigners these same basic social-contract benefits that they themselves do take advantage of, and deny us them for xenophobic reasons?

 

I admit, I have seen evidence of this pattern myself in Thailand, namely in the double-pricing you see everywhere, but not in situations as serious as these.

 

Thoughts?

 

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"Do Thais really get 6 month severance?"

 

Yes, usually anyway. The amount of severance is dependent upon the length of time a person was employed. Maximum I believe is 1 year of severance.

Last company I got fired from (Western owned) did pay me severance, 3 months.

 

"Would they turn on one of their own in that same situation, the way they did on this guy?"

 

No idea, but doubt it.

 

Sanuk!

 

[Wallenda]

OK if that's the case then it does indeed seem extremely dodgy.

 

About the Thai teaching staff not wanting to talk to Stick or his friend after that, I wonder if management 'had a talk' with them and let them know they were 'keeping an eye on the situation' -- once in New York I worked in a place where part of the staff were trying to organize a union (in a quixotic disorganized way) -- they all got let go. I was going out clubbing on the weekend with one cute girl who worked in amongst the group that was trying to unionize. Not longer after they all got let go, I got let go -- no reason given. It was obvious they were paranoid about the situation and wanted to cut out the whole wound and much of the surrounding area, me included. Even in America, management sometimes do ridiculous things like this.

 

But again back to Stick: I wish he'd engaged one of those Thai teachers in a discussion of why they would support the company in that situation, to find out for sure that that was the reason, and that it wasn't just the Thais trying not to lose their jobs by appearing to be too chummy with Stick and his pal.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Wendella,

 

"Do Thais really get 6 month severance?"

 

As KS said, yes, or more, or less, depending on how long they've worked for the company.

 

"Would they turn on one of their own in that same situation, the way they did on this guy?"

 

Maybe. Depends. But it is the law and they could get a lawyer and sue, and likely get the severance pay owed.

 

"If a Thai got bit by his neigbhor's dog, would he expect the neighbor to compensate him for his medical bill?"

 

Most definitely. They'll even ask for money if your dog kills their dog in a fight, or if you run over their stupid mutt that they leave out all hours of the day and night. Seen it many times in the village and the city neighborhood.

 

How would the neighbor likely react if he did?

 

"Or is it just true that Thais deny foreigners these same basic social-contract benefits that they themselves do take advantage of, and deny us them for xenophobic reasons?"

 

I think to a certain extent yes, as you know all farang are rich anyway, and never can be considered Thai.

 

"I admit, I have seen evidence of this pattern myself in Thailand, namely in the double-pricing you see everywhere, but not in situations as serious as these."

 

I've seen it happen to farang teachers here in Surin. Some get the pay owed, some they try to screw over. Especially if they did not like the farang and were/are getting rid of them due to that animosity toward the farang. And they will give a letter of recommendation to some, and not others. Usually not to the farang they considered too uppity and abrasive (even though an excellent teacher). Lots of politics in the workplace I have heard from others.

 

Recently they got rid of a lot of the older English teachers here. Age discrimination really, and, those farang who are there a long time get much higher pay than a new hire. So dump the older, more lucratively paid, farang teacher, and hire a new young one for much less money (and possibly pocket some of the difference it is hinted).

 

 

 

[gobbledonk]

None of that sounds exclusively Thai to me. We have one very notorious group of people in Australia who would replicate any of the above and worse - the Lebanese. In the case where the guy went to ask his neighbour for compensation, they would have gleefully set the dog on him again. The biggest mistake we ever made was taking these people from a wartorn, fucked up country and giving them a home here.

[Flashermac]

 

I know of two foreign lecturers who got dropped by a Thai private university. (You are on a contract, so you will almost never be fired - just not renewed.) One Farang had been there for ages and was getting about 60,000 a month. The other was maybe in the 45,000 baht range. They were replaced with two new hires at 28,000 baht. So much for quality education.

 

But crap happens at home too. I had friends whose jobs were ended when another company took over the contract, simply because it was "minority owned". Oddly enough everyone laid off was white, and everyone hired was of the African persuasion. Those replaced were much more qualified than the new people, enough so that there were complaints about service. Had it happened the other way around, there would have been protests and law suits. But in this situation, no one said a word about it.

 

 

 

 

[Wallenda]

In the US, you're not entitled to a guaranteed severance -- we do have 'unemployment insurance' which would run for 6 months, but the amount you would get (varies state by state even though it's a federal program) would almost surely not be close to the salary you had. Part of your pay goes as a contribution to the unemployment fund, and the co. pays into it as well. Later your unemployment check is drawn from those funds. I guess there's a reason they set it up that way -- probably that employers would always be looking for excuses not to pay it. Govt is much more easy-going about a person qualifying for it, need a solid reason to deny it.

 

I think what this comes down to is that in Thailand there's no real rule of law. Power is law. The fact they're contacting the guy's employer and turning the screws shows they feel no vulnerability at all (as far as his retaliation at least) -- doing that in the US would open up both companies to big payouts in lawsuits and fines from the govt. In Thailand, if it gets as far as court, I would guess the chances are about nil that the law would be enforced -- there'd be some loophole sought and filled, judge looking for any half-legit excuse to rule in favor of the Thai. I haven't lived in Thailand, just going by what I see on sites like these. I could be wrong.

 

If it had happened to me, I'd have at least talked to a good attorney about it before eliminating options or signing anything.

[gobbledonk]

Its a different world, but I'm sure Farang arent the only people who suffer at the hands of Thai employers - the difference would seem to be the level of acceptance.