Shooting The Messenger - Thainess

[Coss]

You are too easy -

 

" Ok education time. Burmese migrant workers are exploited in Thailand .......FACT "

 

You mean the estimated two million Burmese, working inside Thailand without papers and working illegally.

 

So when a slave is held and worked illegally by men with guns, it's the slave's fault for having incorrect paperwork?

 

Surely you understand that if Thais were law abiding and insisted on the correct paperwork, these Burmese, the illegals, would not get jobs? And thereto they wouldn't flock/be trafficked to Thailand for work?

 

They're not flocking to Bangladesh now are they? No work you see, no Thai employers willing to exploit them despite their lack of paper work.

 

" Because you have never heard of Andy Hall just clarifies how either out of touch you are or naive "

 

Ok .... He is conceived to be important to some, I now know he is an active United Kingdom trade unionist, living in Thailand for ten years, and all his court costs are being funded by the European union. I can see many companies around the world abuse their employees but why is Andy Hall in Thailand ? Abuse of employees is taking place in the UK as I type this. I am not excusing bad Thai practice at all, just wondering why another foreigner has arrived to tell the Thais how bad they are.

 

Why? Because slavery at the levels being observed in Thailand, does not occur in many other countries. At such levels it's become f**king blatantly obvious and cannot be hidden anymore, that's why the EU gave the Thais a "yellow card". It's not because they found two illegal Burmese on a little boat, it's because the practise is the prevalent method of labour use in this industry and additionally there mass graves associated with the trafficking for this industry.

 

Though IMHO the Indonesians and others near this area, Burmese, Bangladeshis and others are likely to be as culpable. However, Thailand has a public stance of wishing to be seen as 1st world with all the trappings of Western culture. The facts are, Thailand, except for the Hi-Sos in Bangkok, is demonstrably 3rd world and at best a poor 2nd world country.

 

To compare UK labour abuses with the slavery in Thailand is to compare the rice I have in my cupboard, awaiting cooking, with the warehouses full of fetid rotting rice that Yingy left for the Thai people.

 

This world, with the advent of the inter web and other tech marvels like cell phone coverage of most of the populated planet, is now very global, very transparent and very observable. None of this is the result of Thai innovation. Thai practices like "Face" and "Shooting the Messenger" are out of date and will soon to be consigned to history.

 

The message if there is one, is that change is constant, old practises die and the rest of the world is here, get used to it. Don't shoot me.

[Coss]

A further example is here http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1453523081 Court Warns Against Sharing Videos of Raging Judge

 

this shows two things

 

1/. If someone is important or perceived to be important, then the establishment is set up to protect them, no matter what they've done.

 

2/. Many Thais get their education from the TV, the fact that this video clip is on the net, means it's in the public domain, forever. Thinking that you can ban it or the sharing of it, is really too much CSI crap. I'd like to see a Thai judge hand down an order to remove this from Youtube's servers, they's have to establish where the servers were, and that Windows XP computer in the corner office just aint gonna cut the mustard.

[Guest]

" Why ? Because slavery at the levels being observed in Thailand, does not occur in many other countries "

 

Modern day slavery and human trafficking in New Zealand

 

https://www.lawsocie...man-trafficking

 

I might agree with you once you sort out your own country first ............

 

The New Zealand legislation does not currently recognise domestic or internal trafficking and does not include the purpose of the offence, exploitation.

 

Stories of abuse and exploitation are becoming more commonplace and high profile allegations have been made that trafficking has been taking place in New Zealand since 2004. These allegations include the fact that foreign men – largely from Indonesia, Cambodia, Vietnam and Thailand – are subjected to forced labour conditions aboard our foreign charter vessels in New Zealand waters. Alleged conditions include confiscation of passports, imposition of significant debts, physical violence, mental abuse, excessive hours of work and sexual abuse.

 

In addition, some Asian and Pacific Island individuals migrate to work in our agriculture or viticulture industries but find themselves exploited. Workers have reported being charged excessive and escalating recruitment fees, unjustified salary deductions and restrictions on their movement, passport confiscation, contracts altered or being subjected to changes in working conditions without their permission.

 

In the Bay of Plenty, Indian nationals are recruited to set up “shell†companies and recruit workers from India and promise them jobs in the “shell†companies. Once they arrive in New Zealand, the workers are forced to pay a significant bond and to work as fruit pickers for a pittance, compared with what was agreed. If they don’t comply or challenge the recruiters they are threatened with deportation or beatings or both.

 

In Christchurch there are some recruitment and small construction companies who are exploiting Filipino labourers. One instance was where the recruitment firm recruited a number of labourers, and when still in the Philippines the workers agreed to paying an amount for a “toolbox†but the amount was not stipulated. They signed a contract before leaving the Philippines. This was the contract given to Immigration New Zealand to obtain a visa for the worker.

 

Upon their arrival in New Zealand, the worker’s contracts were replaced and the worker felt without the option to refuse to sign it. The new contract set out the schedule of expenses of the toolbox and set out the figure at $7,700 per worker and included a “debt bondage†clause that stipulated if the worker left the agency before the end of their three-year term, they would be liable to pay US$10,000 to the company. The company confiscated and held the passports of the men and put them in overcrowded accommodation while charging out an unreasonable amount of $155 per week for such accommodation.

 

In 2001 a Thai woman contacted Immigration New Zealand and claimed she had been trafficked and forced into prostitution. She said she had been promised a job in a restaurant in return for payment of NZ$10,000 at 36% interest. Upon her arrival, her money, return tickets and passport was confiscated, and she was forced to live in overcrowded conditions with 14 other women.

 

She paid $150 per week in rent for space in a room with six other women and worked 14-hour days, seven days a week in forced prostitution. She never saw any money as it was all taken to repay her “debtâ€.

 

Within a week of coming forward, she was repatriated and no charges of any kind were brought against anyone. Then in 2004, three girls were trafficked into Auckland by Ukrainian organised crime and one was arrested and charged with being in possession of a false Israeli passport (she had been previously trafficked to Israel).

 

She was acquitted due to her being a trafficking victim but no charges were laid against her traffickers. Around 2006, a 15-year-old was seduced by a brothel operator. He deceived her into thinking he was 20-something and in love with her and she would live with him. His intention was to exploit her in his brothel, which he did, and he was prosecuted under the Prostitution Reform Act 2003.

 

However, due to a lack of recognition in law of internal trafficking, no trafficking charges were brought nor could they, even today. Recently, in June 2014, a Miami-based pimp and trafficker was convicted of sex trafficking and money laundering, and significantly, one of his victims was a New Zealander who helped to secure his conviction. It follows, therefore, that there may be issues of labour exploitation, slavery and trafficking

[bust]

This type of exploitation exists worldwide however not to the levels it does in Thailand. FACT it is one of the worst.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-us-says-thailand-malaysia-venezuela-among-worst-human-trafficking-centers-2014-20?IR=T

 

If you dig a little deeper you will find that in most cases in countries like Australia and New Zealand (and probably many developed countries) the perpetrators are usually of the same ethnic background or region as those being exploited.

[Guest]

I'm digging deeper ...........

 

" This type of exploitation exists worldwide however not to the levels it does in Thailand. FACT it is one of the worst."

 

India is the worst with 14 million ....

 

http://www.globalslaveryindex.org/

 

The 2014 Global Slavery Index estimated that there were 600 people living in modern slavery in New Zealand.

 

Australia has an estimated 3000

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

And nearly half a million in Thailand, representing a much larger percentage of the population than in developed countries:

 

http://www.globalsla...untry/thailand/

 

Besides, just because it also happens in other countries doesn't make it right.

 

Sanuk!

[Coss]

This is more fun than raping a Rhinoceros

 

OK my comments in oh, (blue) for fun..

 

 

quote name='บางà¸à¸­à¸à¸¡à¸´à¸ªà¸‹à¸µà¹ˆ'

" Why ? Because slavery at the levels being observed in Thailand, does not occur in many other countries "

 

Modern day slavery and human trafficking in New Zealand

 

https://www.lawsocie...man-trafficking

 

I might agree with you once you sort out your own country first ............ (much as I'd love to, they won't give me the keys...)

 

The New Zealand legislation does not currently recognise domestic or internal trafficking and does not include the purpose of the offence, exploitation. (not absolutely correct, by way of disclosure, I was involved in the successful prosecution of a Thai man in the early nineties for slavery, he was withholding the passports of 4 Thai girls, they were professionals, but were trafficked to NZ by a Thai man, the immigration rules were subsequently changed and Thais could no longer get a visa waiver on arrival, they must now apply for a Tourist Visa in Thailand before they leave)

 

Stories of abuse and exploitation are becoming more commonplace and high profile allegations have been made that trafficking has been taking place in New Zealand since 2004. These allegations include the fact that foreign men – largely from Indonesia, Cambodia, Vietnam and Thailand – are subjected to forced labour conditions aboard our foreign charter vessels in New Zealand waters. Alleged conditions include confiscation of passports, imposition of significant debts, physical violence, mental abuse, excessive hours of work and sexual abuse. (correct, foreign flagged ships, shipping illegally in NZ and Antarctic waters often use crew from the countries mentioned above, NZ authorities are working constantly to free these poor souls, it seems every month, we rescue a crew when one of these vessels docks for supplies in NZ - Now pay attention บางà¸à¸­à¸à¸¡à¸´à¸ªà¸‹à¸µà¹ˆ, NZ is not supporting or enabling these practices, NZ is doing the opposite to what Thailand has been doing by trying to catch these bastards, many of whom are Thai)

 

In addition, some Asian and Pacific Island individuals migrate to work in our agriculture or viticulture industries but find themselves exploited. Workers have reported being charged excessive and escalating recruitment fees, unjustified salary deductions and restrictions on their movement, passport confiscation, contracts altered or being subjected to changes in working conditions without their permission. (correct, this is a practise in the fruit picking and restaurant trades, the perpetrators who are prosecuted and seem to be in the news all the time, are Indians and Thais)

 

In the Bay of Plenty, Indian nationals are recruited to set up “shell†companies and recruit workers from India and promise them jobs in the “shell†companies. Once they arrive in New Zealand, the workers are forced to pay a significant bond and to work as fruit pickers for a pittance, compared with what was agreed. If they don’t comply or challenge the recruiters they are threatened with deportation or beatings or both. (see previous)

 

In Christchurch there are some recruitment and small construction companies who are exploiting Filipino labourers. One instance was where the recruitment firm recruited a number of labourers, and when still in the Philippines the workers agreed to paying an amount for a “toolbox†but the amount was not stipulated. They signed a contract before leaving the Philippines. This was the contract given to Immigration New Zealand to obtain a visa for the worker. (correct, again, organised by foreign nationals and caught and prosecuted by NZ)

 

Upon their arrival in New Zealand, the worker’s contracts were replaced and the worker felt without the option to refuse to sign it. The new contract set out the schedule of expenses of the toolbox and set out the figure at $7,700 per worker and included a “debt bondage†clause that stipulated if the worker left the agency before the end of their three-year term, they would be liable to pay US$10,000 to the company. The company confiscated and held the passports of the men and put them in overcrowded accommodation while charging out an unreasonable amount of $155 per week for such accommodation. (see previous)

 

In 2001 a Thai woman contacted Immigration New Zealand and claimed she had been trafficked and forced into prostitution. She said she had been promised a job in a restaurant in return for payment of NZ$10,000 at 36% interest. Upon her arrival, her money, return tickets and passport was confiscated, and she was forced to live in overcrowded conditions with 14 other women. (not the case I referred to earlier)

 

She paid $150 per week in rent for space in a room with six other women and worked 14-hour days, seven days a week in forced prostitution. She never saw any money as it was all taken to repay her “debtâ€.

 

Within a week of coming forward, she was repatriated and no charges of any kind were brought against anyone. (I would suggest that there is more to her story and that if a prosecution could be mounted it would have been, when you get the reporter straying into invective "and no charges of any kind were brought against anyone.", I'd suggest emotional rather than objective views)

 

Then in 2004, three girls were trafficked into Auckland by Ukrainian organised crime and one was arrested and charged with being in possession of a false Israeli passport (she had been previously trafficked to Israel). and no charges of any kind were brought against anyone.

 

She was acquitted due to her being a trafficking victim but no charges were laid against her traffickers. Around 2006, a 15-year-old was seduced by a brothel operator. He deceived her into thinking he was 20-something and in love with her and she would live with him. His intention was to exploit her in his brothel, which he did, and he was prosecuted under the Prostitution Reform Act 2003. (again - prosecuted)

 

However, due to a lack of recognition in law of internal trafficking, no trafficking charges were brought nor could they, even today. Recently, in June 2014, a Miami-based pimp and trafficker was convicted of sex trafficking and money laundering, and significantly, one of his victims was a New Zealander who helped to secure his conviction. It follows, therefore, that there may be issues of labour exploitation, slavery and trafficking

 

(if this report is correct, and there appears to be a lack of an actual trafficking law, it still doesn't show that NZ is like Thailand and that our Police, Government and Business people are heavily involved in and complicit with the actual trafficking and slavery of people. All it shows, is that the big bad world, extends to NZ and that we catch and prosecute, as many as we can, something that hasn't happened in Thailand and is only of concern to the Thais, since the EU gave them a yellow card over the rampant slavery and trafficking found in the Fishing industry.

 

บางà¸à¸­à¸à¸¡à¸´à¸ªà¸‹à¸µà¹ˆ, you're going to have to do better than attempting to evade the facts by pointing to next boy in line and saying he did it too. How about clearly demonstrating that the things we've been saying about Thailand are not true, can you?)

[passingthru69]

He does it because he saw it and reported the facts.

Here in the states we have had the same issues about workers being exploited it has been reported and fixed somewhat

The Thai's just seem to want to stick their heads in the sand and hope it will just go away, or they take the "tea money" and look the other way..

My wife is Thai, and proud of her country. But when she reads and has seen some things happen she gets upset, that this is going on and not taken care of the correct way. Not just trying to save "face"

 

She is proud of the King and Queen. Some times when I have pointed out a few things, kinda showing a wrong. Well the war is on.

I just shut up.

[Guest]

" Here in the states we have had the same issues about workers being exploited it has been reported and fixed somewhat "

 

Yes, it started to get better once mass slavery of thousands was abolished ..........

 

" She is proud of the King and Queen. Some times when I have pointed out a few things, kinda showing a wrong. Well the war is on.

I just shut up. "

 

Yes, I'm sure she is, the same as me, and millions of others ....

[Coss]

" Here in the states we have had the same issues about workers being exploited it has been reported and fixed somewhat "

 

Yes, it started to get better once mass slavery of thousands was abolished ..........

 

And yet slavery's continued existence in LOS is justified by you, because it is elsewhere too

 

 

" She is proud of the (removed for safety). Some times when I have pointed out a few things, kinda showing a wrong. Well the war is on.

I just shut up. "

 

Yes, I'm sure she is, the same as me, and millions of others ....

 

Well we can't fault you, for being ashamed of your people and reacting negatively.