Guest Posted July 7, 2002 Report Share Posted July 7, 2002 Hey everyone, I've been reading the posts for a while and finally decided to get involved. Gotta say this is the best discussion forum about thailand that I've seen so far. Has anyone on this board ever had any success owning a bar (like a beer bar, not go-go) in the LOS? If so, what does it take to get started, such as how much money, work visas, etc....? I know there is much risk involved, and have seen alot of negativity about it, but there has to be some bar owners having success, due to the amount of bars i've seen there (BKK, Pattaya). Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarisin Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 I think the common consensus here and among experienced sanukers is that owning a bar in the LOS is a minefield with very few safe zones on which to step. Yes, there are a couple of bar-owners on the board and they might be willing to volunteer information on the success of their investments. However, for every successful bar, there are probably a hundred more that are cash cows that sooner rather than later go down the tubes for a variety of reasons such as stealing, poor business practices, police troubles, etc. etc. If you are really, really interested, I recommend you come to the LOS and be a bar patron for about a year. Then, after you know the scene and a few owners, consider your options. You might conclude as many of us have, it is better to be a customer than an owner. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 Have to agree. The falangs I've spoken to that have owned bars advise against it if you're trying to make money. There was a joke about the airline industry that went Q: How do you become a millionaire in the airline industsry? A: Start out as a billionaire and buy an airline. I've heard the same analogy can be said of beer bars. In Pattaya, I hear its particularly slow now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiledCowboy Posted July 8, 2002 Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 I think that everyone goes down that pathway of thinking of buying an up and running bar and living on "easy-street". In Pattaya you could get one for a meagre 180,000 bht or even less - but visit the location and you would soon see that even then it would be a recipe for financial demise, there are about 1300 establishments in Pattaya alone! Supply does exceed demand. The thing that made me forget the idea straight away was, well ok, let's say the bar does well or just covers its costs in high-season - but in the other couple of seasons the bar-owner is constantly paying out large wads of baht in order to keep the girls there, pay the rent etc etc - so unless the premises do really well in ALL the seasons, then you soon would want to offload the bar asap, hence the reason you can purchase a bar cheaply, its had a lot of owners and seen many baht spent to prop it up in quiet times. As well as that, I agree that LOS business's need your physical presence there all the time to "keep on eye on the cash-register, staff motivation etc". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit_of_town_hall Posted July 9, 2002 Report Share Posted July 9, 2002 Hi Sarisin, From your experience whats the approximate cost of a go go on Soi Cowboy. They always seem to do quite well. It strikes me that you need to put in a reasonable amount of investment say 2 or 3 million baht minimum and then have liquid funds to keep you going for a year. ie not taking any money out of the business. Also whats the situation re work permits, if you buy a go go and put up the 2 m baht capital do you get a work permit for 1 farang. How do the successful Go Go owners work it now? That said I suppose the police could come along at any time and close you down on some spurious reason. STH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarisin Posted July 10, 2002 Report Share Posted July 10, 2002 SOTH, I'll have to defer on this one. I have no experience buying a bar, nor do I care to gain this experience. I think it does depend on the bar, location, etc. I have heard of gogo bars in SC going for 4 million baht, but surely the smaller ones would be less. I think like the beer bars, some do well, some do not. That is why you see constant turnover and new owners. I would suppose you do get a work permit, although I am not sure. I have heard that the farang 'owner' was not permitted to work in the bar. Even showing up regularly could be construed as working in the bar. I hope some of the owners on the board weigh in on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneSoup Posted July 10, 2002 Report Share Posted July 10, 2002 OK, for the sheer hell of it, I'll step out into the open here. I'm the advertising sponsor of this forum. One of my company's activities was providing company start-up assistance in Thailand. What I learned: nobody thinks they need professional (paid) help here, so nobody pursues this assistance. Almost everybody later realizes they screwed up in this regard, but by then: 1. They can no longer afford the assistance 2. They've already learned most of the key lessons the hard way Here it is in a nutshell: Income items: Sale of drinks Sale of Cigarettes Barfines Pool table fees (if any) Sale of bar T-shirts/hats etc. Expense items (heh, heh): Beverages Wholesale cigarettes Ice Napkins Toothpicks Ashtrays Trash cans Glasses (15 varieties) Coasters Bottle condoms Bartender salaries Waitress salaries Cashier salaries Mamasan salary Bargirl salaries Rent Electricity "Key money" "Protection money" (aka police contributions) Water (for toilets) Music system CD's Furniture Fans Air conditioners Toilet paper Locks Keys Cash register Calculator Dishwashing soap Brooms Corporate tax on profits Employee withholding taxes VAT taxes Social fund matching contributions Light bulbs Swizzle sticks Portaits of King Paper clips Credit card machine Bank account charges Cost for printing of bank checks Postage Daily tamboon flowers and offerings and a million other things - literally. There are very definite limits for what can bring you income, but there are almost no limits on what expenses can emerge to bleed you white. And the above does not include the actual costs of company formation, work permit registration, etc. I have yet to see any farang actually build an Excel spreadsheet model of his proposed business, and actually run a cash-flow model - income vs. expenses, and retained earnings. Everyone just floats along in a fanatsized dreamland of running a bar. It is absolutely amazing. At any rate, I'm no longer pursuing the company start-up assistance business. The target customer base coming in here is too ignorant, and I don't have time to educate them to prove to them that they need the advice. But - I may have stumbled onto the key to success here, despite myself: Network like crazy, listen to 1,000 farang entrepenuers with schemes, and demostrate to them that you run a small firm that is: 1) honest; 2) reliable; 3) competent; and 4) locally savvy and knowledgeable. Wait until 1 or 2 out of the thousand actually achieve remarkable and sudden success - and......suddenly find themselves in desperate need of an in-place operations staff/office, able to rapidly exploit success. I have cultivated my two accounts, and I am now in the "staff augmentation" business - not by plan, but by serendipity. Like someone once said - the farang world is linear - you want to get from point A to point B, you steer a straight line between the two. Not so in Thailand (maybe all of Asia???). Here, things move in circles or other strange orbits. You start out from"A",and you go....wherever the flow of events takes you. You just have to keep your eyes open, and recognize opportunities when they knock. Very tough to do if you are drunk, or hungover, or chasing skirts. Bars are a big business here. A smaller, but really accomplished line of business here is selling bars to well-intentioned farangs - always for more than they are worth. In fact, usually by selling a bar that cannot possibly make any serious money long-term to someone. Later, buying it back for a fraction of what it last sold for, and then selling it again. And again. And again. If I was forced to help a farang enter the bar business here, my advice would be to buy a small share in a successful bar - not more than 20% stake - and only if the majority owners stayed in place - and watch and learn for at least a full year (through all the seasons). Then, if all makes sense, start increasing your stake, maybe 10% at a time, slowly assuming ownership of the bar. Depending on your nationality, you may reach a legal ownership ceiling at 49%, or .....if American, all the way to 100%. But I would never want to go it alone without a trusted Thai partner. Whatever. Take my advice as being worth what it cost you. Luck: When preparation meets opportunity. Luck: The residue of superior design. 'Outta here- Stone Soup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2002 Report Share Posted July 10, 2002 buying any amount of shares in an existing bar is a very foolish thing if you don't know the ropes, and are very well connected already. there are no ways to go to court in case of a conflict with the other shareholders, and you might need to employ other means to get your money back. the barbusiness basically comes down to one thing (like most other things in life): you gotta know what you are doing before you risk anything you are not willing to loose. the bars i know who make a lot of profit are usually run by professionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2002 Report Share Posted July 10, 2002 "...there has to be some bar owners having success, due to the amount of bars i've seen there..." [color:blue]"Look at all these girls! This is EASY. I'm gonna sell everything and buy a bar." Might as well burn your money. I challenge any bar owner here to tell us he's making money. Of course, no one will tip us off. Truth: 1% make money. IMO color=blue> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneSoup Posted July 10, 2002 Report Share Posted July 10, 2002 Just passing through..... No more income items to add. But - a few more expense items: Business cards Advertising Drink menus Hammer Wrench Screwdriver Scissors Paring knives Cutting board Telephone (instrument) Telephone installation charge Base monthly phone charge Telephone call unit charges TV set Cable installation charge Monthly cable charge Salt shakers Salt Spoons Coffee maker Coffee Sugar Milk/cream Tea Blender Check-bin cups Check-bin checks Stapler Staples Incense joss sticks Matches Pool table Pool balls Pool cues Pool high ?bridge? (rake) Pool low ?bridge? (rake) Pool chalk Talcum powder Talcum powder dish Whiteboard Whiteboard markers Chalkboard Chalk Vacuum cleaner Pool table brush Olives Limes Maraschino cherries Corkscrew Ice tongs Straws Anyone still interested in getting into the bar business????? Remember - the devil is in the details. Attention to detail - a scarce commodity around BKK farang bar-owner want-to-bes. Keep smiling !!! Stone Soup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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