Long Gun Posted July 13, 2002 Report Share Posted July 13, 2002 GTG At your request, freshly imported from elsewhere: You wrote: I think Money IS their absolute incentive for becoming a bg. Almost certainly a major factor initially but what do you think of Cleo Odzer's views about the other ways in which their choice enriches their lives and empowers them? and similar sentiments have arisen several times since in the other thread. Just as a refresher, Cleo concluded: "I believed Patpong prostitutes had advantages over non-prostitute Thai women who didn't belong to the rich upper class. They had more independence and opportunities. They were more worldly. They met and maintained contact with people from around the globe. They had experiences they'd never otherwise be exposed to, such as flying in planes and being taken abroad to work. People taught them to swim, bowl, play snooker, drive motorbikes. They learned English and other languages. They became daring. Having broken one of society's taboos, they dared to break more. They went out alone at night and traveled on their own. They met people easily. They developed skills to obtain what they wanted. Becoming deft at hustling they recognized their ability to influence their environment. They stepped into ventures confident that they'd find someone along the way to pay. Most importantly, they had money. Money allowed them to fulfil familial obligations while providing freedom of movement. They felt pride in seeing their parents' new houses, built with their earnings. They returned to their villages as superstars distributing alms. With money, they bought the symbols of success: clothes, accessories, and electronics. It gave them the base to lay plans for the future. Money also gave them leeway to escape bad relationships, unpleasant situations, and the harshness of village life. It provided the wherewithal to do nothing if that's what they wanted. Patpong itself offered the comfort and stability of an esoteric community. The girls had their own friends, VD doctor, moneylender. They had a favourite afterhours club. They knew the Patpong taxi and motorbike drivers who took them home. They knew the staff of short- time hotels." "Working Patpong offered adventure, excitement and romance. It was an alternative to low-paid, long-hour factory work or other non- skilled labour. It was easier than planting rice. It was one place they could return to in time of need. It was a place where women could express their anger at the way society fashioned Thai men - an outlet for revenge where women could reject them, at least verbally" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 The other side of the story, girls, working for contracts many years, girls, getting on drugs, girls, getting sick, girls from burma ... The truth is in the middle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash999 Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 LOL!!!! Is that guy serious or is it a big piss-take? "Working Patpong offered adventure, excitement and romance." This is like something out of The Onion. How about life as a drug dealer? Offers daily excitement, a chance to meet people and establish wonderful long-lasting relationships with members from all walks of the community, and additional benefits including firearms training, knowledge in chemistry and biology, and the compensation is fantastic. Or a street urchin? Offers the ultimate in personal freedom- no more alarm clocks, no more bosses, and no more bills! Go anywhere you want, when you want, as far as your feet will take you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 First of all we are not talking about Uni grads. Usually lower class ladies with minimal education or vocation. the question for the young & pretty BGs side is: 3K bt per month for hard physically demanding labor or 3K bt per day in nice hotels.. spending time with digusting farang sex tourists, or spending time working a rice field in BR or cleaning a toilet in a hotel, or sweeping the strreet.. Older, fatter, uglier, dumber.. have a different outlook...the Hos in China town MPs are looking at a different situition... but still relatively easy work for an excellant wage by Thai standards. In any of the venues the girls CAN get ahead while giving head. Save their money & open their own 'bug cart'.. Seems a no brainer, 100X bt for 1% of the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberbeno4 Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 <<People taught them to swim, bowl, play snooker, drive motorbikes. >> for sure an important factor in ones life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 The truth is in the middle ----------------------------- and a bit lower...Now you are warming up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 Has Cleo been to Chinatown trying to buy a girl's virginity. or some old brothels where girls get 100 bahts per shot? IMO, no tourist sex scene if the bottom part of the iceberg was not there to begin with. Oh, shit! tired to beat up on an old horse/odzer as far as this topic is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickman Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 100 x baht for 1% of the effort? That is a damned insult to the girls in the industry and makes it sound like havign sex with people they haev no feelings for is a walk in the park. The effort is much more than 1% and the multiplicity of the money earned is, on average, about 4 times. (girls from this backgroudn earn about 5,000 baht a month on average and the naughty nightlife industry average is at a guess, around 20,000 baht) So, I ask you this question. Would you sell your ass for four times your current salary? I'm serious. I'd love to know the answer. I know I sure as hell wouldn't. Stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodthaigirl Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 Longgun, >GTG >At your request, freshly imported from elsewhere: You wrote: >>I think Money IS their absolute incentive for becoming a bg. >Almost certainly a major factor initially but what do you think of Cleo Odzer's views about the other ways in which their choice enriches their lives and empowers them? Odzer?s view is simply a JOKE to me, really. I prefer Erik Cohen (Department of Sociology and Social-Anthropology, Hebrew University of Jerusalem). I suggest you read some of his articles/books. They are more realistic than Odzer?s. I can argue every point of her articles. Here we go. >"I believed Patpong prostitutes had advantages over non-prostitute Thai women who didn't belong to the rich upper class. They had more independence and opportunities. They were more worldly. They met and maintained contact with people from around the globe. I?m from middle class. I can do that without being a bg but I worked hard for it. Do they prefer or willing to do that? With the internet easier to get access to, we can all ?maintained contact with people from around the globe?. Other occupations can provide opportunities to meet other people from other countries as well. I don?t have to tell you that coz you know more than me, right? >They had experiences they'd never otherwise be exposed to, such as flying in planes and being taken abroad to work. In other words, to f**k with more sweaty farangs , right? How nice ! >People taught them to swim, bowl, play snooker, drive motorbikes. As cyberbeno4 has pointed out, very essential skills indeed. >They learned English and other languages. It?s their job to try to learn the languages to get more customers. Salesgirls do the same. This point is ridiculous. >They went out alone at night and traveled on their own. Other girls do the same too. My maids go to their village alone. I go out and travel alone. This point is also a joke. Even village girls go out alone sometimes. >They met people easily. I think it is a personality issue rather than being a bg or not. Yes, but when they are in the business longer they are more relaxed and be able to sleep with whomever ask them to. Salesgirls are the same as they try to sell their produce they have to learn how to approach the customers. >They developed skills to obtain what they wanted. Becoming deft at hustling they recognized their ability to influence their environment. They stepped into ventures confident that they'd find someone along the way to pay. Does she mean bgs develop ability to ?con? their customers? How nice! So, she thinks it is a good thing ! >Most importantly, they had money. Money allowed them to fulfil familial obligations while providing freedom of movement. They felt pride in seeing their parents' new houses, built with their earnings. They returned to their villages as superstars distributing alms. With money, they bought the symbols of success: clothes, accessories, and electronics. It gave them the base to lay plans for the future. Not ALL of them can do that. That is not garranteed. From what I read and heard, some spend on drugs, lavished lifestyles, etc. But you know all that. >Money also gave them leeway to escape bad relationships, unpleasant situations, and the harshness of village life. It provided the wherewithal to do nothing if that's what they wanted. I doubt the ?bad relationships? part ! >Patpong itself offered the comfort and stability of an esoteric community. The girls had their own friends, VD doctor, moneylender. VD doctor? That?s the downside of the job where the girls are at risk of getting STD/HIV/AIDS. Moneyleader? She just said that these girls have MONEY. So, they don?t need moneylenders. >They had a favourite afterhours club. To spend their money on and not much left for herself/family? >They knew the Patpong taxi and motorbike drivers who took them home. They knew the staff of short- time hotels." ..who might become their bfs or mang da later - sucking their money with nothing left to support their family ! >"Working Patpong offered adventure, excitement and romance. As in one of the posts in other thread has pointed out, how exciting and adventurous can it be to play connect 4 day in day out? To have the same conversation to almost every customers? To sleep with farangs who are twice older than themselves, maybe fat? Bold-headed? Gray-haired?, Or not so bad? Depend on their luck? So, this is excitement and romance. Spare me on this one, please. >It was an alternative to low-paid, long-hour factory work or other non- skilled labour. It was easier than planting rice. Yes, it?s an alternative. But whether it is worth it depends on how one considers the pros and cons and how one values the other alternatives available to them- though limited but still available. If they chose to offer their body for the aforementioned things, so, I would say I feel sorry for them that they decide to choose that path. It is because, for me and maybe Jasmine as well as many other girls I know of, it is not worth it considering all the factors. >It was one place they could return to in time of need. It was a place where women could express their anger at the way society fashioned Thai men - an outlet for revenge where women could reject them, at least verbally" Anger? They choose the job themselves. They have choices. So, why anger? Can?t stand all the abusiveness? Then just leave. Don?t say the money is not enough. Other girls can survive why don?t they? And they have their chance to make money, it they can?t save it, too bad ! Who is to blame then? I sound harsh I know. But I say out of the experience I know of from the girls who choose NOT to participate in the industry. They are happy though they are not living in a new house, wearing fasion clothes, or own a gold necklace. But their children and their parents are feed. They don?t speak English or Dutch but they don?t risk themselves to STDs/HIV/AIDS or have to sell their p***y to provide for their family. THAT IS INDEPENDENT AND FREEDOM TO ME. Freedom from materialistic that is all around us. Dare to be different while people are running after the money and willing to pay any price for it. Freedom to say ? I won?t give you money any more money, mon and dad, because this is what I can afford.?. This I would call it DARING to break the rules and family obligations. GTG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 14, 2002 Report Share Posted July 14, 2002 nice post, GTG. Cleo may have seen a thing or two in the sex scene, but i do not think she knew much of Thailand outside of this. There are definitely "salaam" (dirt poor) girls who did better out of meeting farangs, but i doubt themselves would use Cleo's incentives to boost their profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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