From Todays BKK Post: Please, Translate!?

[Guest]

if the foreigner is working in, say, an office environment, he may be mistakenly belived that the people around him would have similiar behaviour, profiles and values as his wife's friends.

 

 

 

>Read those two paragraphs again. Carefully. It's a point of view which is not a sound one.

 

 

 

Well, I think he is (unintentionally...) giving very good advice. The poor foreigner is bound to get into trouble in the office, if he does not understand that he is not dealing with reasonable human beings but with a bunch of superficial conceited snobs...

 

 

 

Wagner

 

 

[Flashermac]

So how would it be viewed in the US if a well educated businessman married a high school drop out from Appalachia? Or if an upper class Brit married a working class girl with a working class accent? Thais aren't all that different from anywhere else. However, they may be a bit more open about it. In the west people try to hide their prejudices somewhat.

 

 

 

p.s. Don't get me onto the hi-so's, so called. Unfortunately, hi-so has come to mean money in Bangkok. Doesn't much matter how you got it, as long as you do. Prem made a fantastic speak at the beginning of this year when he advised Thais not to respect people who had come by their money corruptly or dishonestly. And as he said it, he was staring right at several of the most corrupt politicians around. I agree with you 100% that "you can't buy class"!

 

 

 

 

[Flashermac]

Most Thai men have an ego thing about their wife not having more education than they do. Years ago, the Bangkok Post had a study on educated women and marriage. They found that about 25% of women with a just a BA will not marry, 50% of those with an MA and a whopping 75% of those with PhDs. Besides the problem of finding someone with a comparable educational level, there was also the age factor. Thai women are considered old maids by around 26 or 27. The years they spend earning a PhD can easily put them up to 30 or more.

 

 

 

30 also seems to be a magic number. I've seen very attractive colleagues, intelligent and full of personality, marry absolute idiots when they turn 30 -- out of fear that they will be left an old maid. It almost broke my heart when my favourite female colleagues got hitched to a fellow with the personality of a toad and the looks to match. But she was nearly 31 when she did it. It seemed such a waste.

 

 

 

Another factor to consider is that Thai men don't want a wife who is smart enough to figure out what they are up to ... e.g. when they get a mia noi or whatever. It is tough to be an intelligent and educated woman in LOS!

 

 

 

Plenty of the educated gals would love a nice Farang husband. But they never get the chance to meet them. I once had a cute colleague with her MA from the States say to me, "Farangs marry bar girls because that's the only kind of women they get to meet." 'Nuff said.

[Brink15]

Flashermac,

 

 

 

Agreed. And I despise the same sort of people in any country including my own.

 

 

 

When I was a child my parents belonged to a prominent country club. My dad joined, as he loved golf.

 

 

 

As a business owner my dad was accepted into the ranks. He got along with everyone very well, but avoided people whose focus was the snob appeal of club membership.

 

 

 

I developed my loathing for these people there. I hung out with the staff, as they were more like my friends at home. The other little brats of the snobbish elite rode me incessantly for this. The more they told me how inappropriate my friends were, the more I despised them.

 

 

 

Finally I refused to go to the club anymore, much to my parent?s consternation. To this day I take great joy at putting my finger in the eye of class-conscious yuppie scum. It is particularly enjoyable to take the piss with one of them when they don't even realize they are the butt of my ridicule, but everyone else does.

 

 

[Guest]

 

 

RE: education and HiSo Thais.

 

 

 

I have to agree that a lot of this 'eduation' is window dressing. My father is married to a Thai from the upper tiers of Thai society. She came to the US to get a masters degree in Mathematics. For all I can tell, it was mostly a trophy to obtain - something to enhance her status. I don't even know how she got accepted to a program, barely being able to handle the math for her small business. She was forced to drop out. Overall she is a relatively Jai Dee person, but once in a while she says or does something that makes me cringe. When she talks about 'good' families, she inevitably is talking about rich, well connected families. Once I was baffled at her statment that most Thai people go to college. Made me wonder what her definition of 'people' was. I haven't decided if having her as a stepmother is a blessing or a curse, as her connections can help me a lot in Thailand, but it also puts a great restricton on who I can publicly associate with. (And yes, she lost her virginity to my father in her mid 30's, like a good consevative Thai.)

 

 

 

I have to say though I think it's the same in the US, just more extreme and obvious in Thailand. Why do so many people go to University to get liberal arts degrees in subjects that are complety useless in their future careers? Most often than not, its' just a status thing, a ticket into the educated class.

 

 

 

 

[soongmak]

Let's say a foreigner marries a Thai waitress who works in a modest restaurant. She [sic!] would advise her husband to be careful in reaching conclusions about Thais based on her frame of reference. The waitress has her colleagues who are busboys, waiters and cooks. But if the foreigner is working in, say, an office environment, he may be mistakenly belived that the people around him would have similiar behaviour, profiles and values as his wife's friends.

 

 

 

Straycat,

 

 

 

I think it's better to "reach conclusions about thais based on her (i.e., the waitress's) frame of reference" than based on the frame of reference of this rather snobbish writer since the middle class and upper class are decidedly smaller than the working classes!

 

 

 

What a piece of crap!

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

soongmak

[JJsushi]

This is what so many of us allude to when we post about the consequences of someone in a good job either marrying, or spending a lot of time with someone who is from a lower social class. No, none of us like it, but this is quite simply how Thailand is...

 

 

 

[color:purple] The beautiful thing about being an educated foreigner in Thailand with multicultural experiences is that you can recognize the flaws and negative consequences of strong class distinctions. You then have a choice as to participate in said behavior. You also have the choice to enlighten and educate your friends as to the detrimental consequences of class snobbery. Who knows? Farangs can be the sparks that help to ignite a positive future social revolution in LOS.

[bibblies]

I agree with you, Mr. Sushi. It's not quite enough to say that "none of us like it, but this is quite simply how Thailand is..." and just take it. "To let evil flourish, it is only enough that good men do nothing", etc. To stretch the point, think of how attitudes such as those of the Nazis took hold.

 

 

 

Yes, I know that's over-egging it somewhat, but the point is correct. We've all got to show a bit of resistance.

[Old Hippie]

Great points here. Which bring me to a similar situation in the U.S. Texas Oil Men or Natural gas people from W. Virgina say. These are guys who man damned well have a hell of a lot of money, but no real education, and no social skills. This has led to a new industry of sorts, "finishing schools" for these people. Basically, a school that teaches these people how to act in a given situation so as not to embarass themselves or their (presumanly) better educate/cultured colleagues. I worked in texas, and met a few of these guys at a live stock show (what the hell was I doin' there? ) really nice guys and you'd never know they had millions, and could buy and sell the average Harvard grad. Funny how people want to use position and background to elevate themselves.

[pattaya127]

Farangs can be the sparks that help to ignite a positive future social revolution in LOS.

 

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not holding my breath, though it would be interesting to see how much farangs have influenced behaviours in thai society, either through medias or real presence (my next thread i guess)