Goodthaigirl Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 quote: Originally posted by rictic: Sorry GTG you are totally wrong. Everyone has face, she has face with the people she knows. Now if you want to talk about people who chose a profession that should have no face look at most politicians. I agree with you on politicians..in every country as a matter of fact. But bgs...maybe you're right. You have more first hand experiences with them more than I do. But I would say they have a different kind of face to keep??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 GTG and Rictic, Yes, everybody has face, but depending on the social order, one has different values and norms... So choose ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 The use of you below is a generic you, not aimed at anyone in particular. The real question comes into who do you have face with?? A few weeks ago you walked into Nana plaza, alone. If anyone who knew you, saw you walk in or out of there you would have lost face with that person and everyone that that person knows. The assumption right or wrong is that you were a prostitute in your spare time and were hiding that fact from everyone there is nothing you could ever do or say to regain that face. You still have face because no-one who knows you saw or knew that you had gone there, only people that don't know you saw you there. Similarily you post on here and have face because no-one who knows you, knows, that you post on a board where prostituion is a subject and that you enter in on the discussions. Everyone has face, it's just a question of who you have face with.. [ February 08, 2002: Message edited by: rictic ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 My hat?s off to you Mr. Seeker, nice post. It?s sad how so many posters here are so cynical when it comes to BG issues, but I can understand it as we all have different experiences in LoS. But IMHO, as mentioned before, if you treat them (BG?s) with a little respect that respect is often returned 10 fold. I honestly believe that most BG?s, when given the chance to actually express them selves, are like any other female around the world? They?ll talk your ear off. Now language can be a barrier of course but take a little bit of time to translate and you can really get someone to open up. Besides, I?ve found many, if not most of my BG friends speak & understand English a lot better than they let on initially Now maybe the stories they tell are BS, but I?m betting many of them are not, so give them a chance before you discount their pleas as pure dribble. I?ve enjoyed spending time trying to figure out something about each of the BG?s I?ve hooked up with, and that effort has always been rewarded. I guess if you just want to fuck the chick and move on, then just disregard the whole post. But I enjoy this process, to me the sex is better this way and that?s what I want if I?m paying for it anyway!!! Still waiting for that ?dead water buffalo? letter asking for support!!! Nothing but good times & great experiences in LoS Nakbin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibblies Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 Of course she has face. Everyone has their own place in their social circle. Think about it. I don't agree that you've got nothing to lose by walking down the street hand-in-hand with her, though. E.g. suppose you had a girlfriend and someone in her circle saw you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 GTG, I think Rictic has it right on here. Good analogy Rictic. GTG, when you went to NanaPlaza to Woodstock, to meet some of the members of this board, were you concerned that someone you knew might see you in that area? If not...why not? Would it be because you thought the chance of someone you knew being in that area and seeing you there was very slim? So your chances of running into a relative or work colleague was fairly remote. Would you care if someone you knew saw you there? I think so. Well, so would most of the girls working there in the falang sex tourist areas, or the mainly Thai sex venues frequented by Thai men even. (Of which there are far more of than the farang areas!) Most of the girls working in these places are not from Bangkok. They are from remote villages and cities and towns in Isaan and other areas of Thailand. Therefore they also have little chance of being seen by those they know. Remember, these are Thai ladies working in these places. Women brought up in the same religion, with similar values and beliefs much as your own. They are more than likely just as concerned about their "face" as you yourself and most other Thais are. I'd think that their decisions to work the jobs that they do must have been very hard on, and for, most of them. As can be seen by the fact that so many use drugs and alcohol to get the, well let's say "courage" for lack of a better word at the moment, to be able to work and get up on a stage and take their clothes off in front of a bunch of total strangers, and foreign ones at that, and then go back to a strangers room and have sex with them. The drugs and booze help them through the day and night to do things against their nature and upbringing. It dulls their pain. Believe me, this takes it's toll on many of the girls, and kills and destroys the lives of many. And after a while when they become addicted, whether mentally, or physically, or emotionally, to these drugs, and alcohol, which is also a very powerful drug in itself, they have even less chance to ever get back to a life where they can function well and care for themselves and their families outside of the sex scene. For most of them this is not how they were raised to behave, this is not what they dreamed of doing when they were little girls, this was not their life's ambition. They had to make hard choices and decisions in their young lives. Their choices were limited. Much more so I dare to say then yours probably were. I may be wrong. A lot of them come from poverty, from broken homes, abandoned by their fathers, abused by relatives, sexually, and physically and mentally, and used by others, family, and supposed friends and lovers, for their ability to make these people money. These are mostly uneducated women, not stupid, uneducated. Most didn't have the chance to get the education you have had the chance to get. Most of them are not any different than yourself, except for their lack of education, and support from a family that has the means to see they are properly educated, cared for, and financially secure with the ability to have medical and dental care when needed. Was your family poor? Did you ever go to bed hungry, or lack enough food to eat? Have you ever had to walk barefoot because your father and mother hadn't the money to buy you shoes? Have you ever lived in a one room building, shack really, with ten other people? Have you ever not been able to afford going to the dentist or doctor when you needed to? Have you ever not had proper clothing to wear, never had a warm coat when you were cold? Have you ever had one of your family die because the family couldn't afford to get them the proper treatment they needed, or not had the money for the pharmaceuticals needed to cure them or keep them alive? Have you ever not been able to further your education, hell, even stay in school after the fourth or fifth grade, because your family couldn't afford to let you stay in school, or pay for your further eduation? Have you ever had to walk for many kilometers to get somewhere because your family couldn't afford a bicycle, let alone a motorcycle or a truck or car? Have you ever lived in, what most of us here on this board, would consider squalor? I know I haven't ever had any of these things to contend with while growing up. Ever. Have you? I've met and seen many Thais who have had to deal with these problems throughout their lives. I've seen how some of these problems are alleviated once one, or more, of the women in the family start working in the sex scene, or some job closely aligned with the sex scene or tourism, of which we all on here are a part of in some way or another. I see this influence of our dollars at work in the village all the time. I've also seen these girls families use these monies for drinking and gambling, instead of saving the money or using it to better their lives, the lives of their children, and especially the life of the girl, their daughter for Christ's sake, who is selling herself, body and soul, to get this money for them. I'd like to see GTG help those of us who give a shit about other aspects of Thailand and Thai people other than just what pleasures we can derive from the sanuk scene. She is unique here, on this board, in her education level and command of the written English language. I'm trying to learn here and educate myself about a people I love and admire in many ways. Hey, I'm going to be spending much time there in the future on a more permanent basis. So I feel that getting some background on GTG's family background and life is a good way for us to see where she's coming from with her questions and comments in her posts. And so far I feel we have only scratched the surface of what she can contribute to this board, if she wants to. And please guys, I'm not trying to pick on GTG here. Not at all. I'm just curious as to her upbringing, her family situation, her family's status, financial and social, in Thailand. I'm trying to draw her out, and see why she seems to think the working girls don't care as much about "face" as she and other Thais do. Face being very important to most Thais, and asians in general. She's obviously an intelligent and well educated Thai woman. It's a testament to their strength and inner beauty that so many bar girls and working girls are still wonderful, polite, caring, sharing, people who are a joy to be around. This is very different from the women working these type of jobs in the west. So basically GTG I'm asking and wondering how you feel about the women of your country doing this work. Can you relate to them at all? Or are they somehow so foreign to what your life experiences have been that you just can't relate to them as peers, as women that you could have as friends. Do you think them socially inferior, somehow morally inferior because of their choices in life, their circumstances, and what they do? Do you feel they had other choices they could have made other than what they did? If so, please elaborate some on this if you ever have some time to do so. What would you advise them if you could? What would your friends and family and co-workers think and say, and do, if they knew you went to Nana Plaza, to Woodstock, to meet some farangs you met through a message board such as this? Would it cause you problems? Do you have any friends, old or new, who work in the bars? What are your feelings about farangs coming to Thailand and frequenting the bars and massage parlors, and the women who work them? What do you see Thailand, the government, being able to do to give these ladies more options and opportunities to choose other lines of work where they can make enough money to support themselves in a decent fashion, and their families? How do you see these women being able to fully complete even their basic educations, let alone be able to further their educations to a level that you yourself have achieved? And exactly what subject was your university degree in? I forget now if you stated what field your studies were. Please believe me GTG. I'm not trying to be supercilious here, nor condescending. I am as I stated, just curious as to your thoughts and comments to my questions, and hope you see they are asked respectfully. Your question/comment about the bar girls and their concern for their "face", or lack thereof, made me curious as to how you see them, and your thoughts about them and their circumstances, backgrounds, educational opportunities, choices, options, and futures. They are after all Thai women. Whether from Surat Thani, Surin, Burirum, Chiang Mai, Kanchanaburi, Roiet, Nong Khai, Uttaradit, Chonburi, Rayong, or Bangkok, they are the same as you, your sisters.....Thai women. I look forward to your replies, thoughts, and comments. Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adakal Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 WOW!!This is why I love this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jingjoh Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Sexy Eyes: She might have been completely innocent, but then again, she might not have. So what?? its so easy to be cynical when you are not sitting in front of a woman who has tears running down her face. Maybe seeker has good perception, I know I do, and I have faced similar situations before, broached a subject which has made a girl inside a bar start to cry because she remembered something she didnt really want to. This happens alot when you go out looking for someone to talk to rather than to fuck. You did a good thing Seeker, your intuition whether 100% correct or not, seemed to be proven when she thanked you and left. I have no words to describe the expats and long term residents who start to emulate local behaviour and show off their new young gf's in front of their ex's with the obvious intent to hurt someone and step on their face. I'd like to think we were above that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utah2001 Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 I'll second that WOW!!!! Cent - That was well written! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 I'm sure many BGs quickly write off sanukers as lying, deceitful, two-timing pak-waans because they have some bad experiences. But there are some who are genuine, and would like to be thought of as such. So when the shoe is on the foot, the jai dee BGs would not want to be lumped with the worst elements of their 'colleagues'. I'm nobody's fool. I can spot cons and put-ons from a mile away. In fact, I probably keep my barriers up waaaay too high. This BG came across as genuine, and it proved so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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