It makes me bloody angry!

[soongmak]

[color:"red"] You are also assuming that a prostitute is an honest person. Not necessarily true. As I have stated previously, the P4P line of work has a tendancy to corrupt people. How many times have we read reports on this board about dishonest behaviour by prostitutes? Why do so many long-term expats in Thailand warn us not to fall in love with and marry prostitutes? [/color]

 

Harlequin,

 

The problem we have with your POV is that you are assuming the opposite. That means that a prostitute is dishonest untill proven otherwise. I'd say that's a far cry from the basic principle established by the western judicial system of "being innocent untill proven guilty." I sincerely hope you don't work in het field of the law

 

Cheers,

 

soongmak

 

 

 

 

[jasmine]

Hi,

 

[color:"red"]...also, which in no way contradicts your post, I wonder if not the majority of women in the sex trade in fact are not recruited from Isarn but from the North!?

[/color]

 

When I was growing up, most of massage parlors and brothels recruited from the North. I understand that now, there are more from the Isaan but those MP still prefer the ones from the Nort because of their skin and mannerism.

 

Jasmine

[jasmine]

Hi,

 

[color:"red"]Daughters have always been sacrificed ( often to the advantage of the son, if the parents had little money). Most never had that much hope of higher education to begin with. [/color]

 

Girls have been sacrifice since day 1. One reason is because boys can carry the family name and they are supposed to be leaders of a family. Second is they are supposed to enter a monkhood once in their life time and this merit is believed that it willl help their parents to a better next life.

 

There are many other reasons and one thing that makes many Thai women quite strong (if they survive) is that they know they are counted on by the parents. Their brothers usually move on to their new families and some are even ashamed of their original families.

 

However, there are women like me who want to be women because we have been treated well all our lives. Spoiled brats I know :o

 

Jasmine

[thalenoi]

To both of you: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Guest]

The girls are in the trade to make money, they gonna do the best they can to earn them, if they trick a customer in any way so they can get more money they do it.

now if we call them dishonest or honest thats its just our point of view in their eyes you only hear "what can i do" they have to do it to survive and thats what the others who takes care of them teaches them,

 

no need to tal about respect or how punters treat the girls or how the girls treat the punters,

 

its induvidual how you get treated and diffrent from girl to girl thats my opinion

 

but still i feel that the majority do anything for money or say anything to get more money from you..

[gummigut]

Well, I for one am glad you "warned" me of this. "if they trick a customer in any way so they can get more money they do it."

 

Yes you are very open minded.

 

Anyone want to start talking about cambodia? Lotsa of similarities running here. Very tiring.

 

<<burp>>

[robaus]

An addendum to the above?.. and I am not bullshitting you! ( have been on this board almost 2 years and Delphi before that with 300 plus credible posts).. I called in to see the lady I mentioned above in the OP at 2am just a short while ago to have a nightcap with her?. The bad news is that she has just been mugged! The Thai motorbike robber didn?t get away with her bag or any gold (she hasn?t any gold in fact?. BTW tell your gfs [ I could never get it though to my long term exGF of last year] ? and your mates for that matter? not to wear 30,000 baht around their necks in Pattaya or BKK.. it?s just asking for trouble). But the mugger did cause her injuries serious enough to have to visit a doctor. Don?t know the extent, I haven?t seen her yet, just telephoned her, after her gfs at her bar told me what had happened.

Maybe harlequinbkk and jjsushi are both right. She?s both a brave heroine and an extreme risk taker to be in the profession she?s in.

Merry Christmas, mates. Our problems are sometimes miniscule compared with others.

 

[robaus]

I?ve been to see my friend from the OP this afternoon. The muggers were in fact 2 Thai guys on a motorbike on a side street just off Soi Bukhao. Didn?t manage to take her bag attached to her belt with ID, and money etc, but did drag her along the street a little way, and she?s got very painful looking gravel rash on her back and shoulders.

So, to add to her woes above, she now has doctor?s bills and loss of earnings for a couple of weeks?. no sickness benefits in Thailand, just cuts to your bar salary if you don?t turn up for work even for legitimate reasons.

She has some good friends helping her, so she will be OK.

What goes around, comes around. Merry Christmas.

 

[harlequinbkk]

Jjsushi,

 

I think you are getting a bit frustrated here. Try to calm down and stay focused on the matter we are discussing and refrain from making personal attacks on me. If you must attack me personally, use the PM feature of this board rather than post it openly.

 

When you (or anyone else) posts something on this board, I assume that you are not lying unless I have compelling evidence to the contrary. I request that you extend the same courtesy to me. I truly did not understand the point of your metaphor: a dishonest person is bowl of noodle soup with beef flavoring, whereas a honest person is filet mingon? What is your point here? Filet mingon is more expensive than noodle soup? The beef flavoring makes noodle soup seem like filet mingon? How do these 2 types of food relate to honest vs. dishonest people?

 

Let me give you a good example of a metaphor. You said:

 

[color:"red"] I also think you realize that your original bold statements boxed you in without any wiggle room and you are now grasping at straws hoping for an out, instead of just admitting that you were off base in your logic and resigning from the debate graciously. [/color]

 

Now, image you go to a Muay Thai fight. The match begins, the 2 fighters each get some punches and kicks in. Halfway through the fight, one of the boxers suddenly stops fighting, raises his hands in victory, and declares himself the winner. This is a metaphor for what you are doing by making the statement above.

 

In light of the fact that prostitution is illegal in many countries and prostitutes are held in disrepute in most societies, I have plenty of 'wiggle room' in which to operate. You think I should be gracious and resign? How gracious are you when you make an unfounded accusation that I am lying?

 

You say that I counter with 'minutia'? I posed the question: "Why do so many long-term expats in Thailand warn us not to fall in love with and marry prostitutes?". You countered this by saying that you had "never been abused by a prostitute as others may have". Actually, my question was rhetorical. My point was that men with long experience in Thailand (and with prostitutes) don't consider prostitutes suitable long-term companions. I think this is a pretty fair argument against giving prostitutes the same respect as women who are not in the P4P scene. Hardly "minutia". You counter by saying you have never been abused by a prostitute. How many members of this board (who have indulged in the P4P scene) would you say have been as fortunate as you? Before you answer, consider all the reports we have read on this board about the dishonest behaviour of prostitutes.

 

Harlequin

 

P.S. Best wishes to you and yours for the holidays

[harlequinbkk]

[color:"red"] So you don't have to know anything about a person to judge them by, except their profession? I think most of us would call that prejudice. [/color]

 

Soongmak,

 

Prejudice is wrong when you make a judgement about someone based on a trait that is unrelated to the judgement. For example, when Thais believe that all farangs are wealthy, that is and error in judgement because white skin ( alas ) in and of itself does not make a person wealthy. Judging a prostitute by their profession is another matter because, one again, we have established that prostitution tends to compromise the integrity and moral values of a prostitute. If all I know about a person is that they are a prostitute, this is the only information I could use to make a judgement. A lot of people would consider a drug dealer to be of bad character if this is all they knew about the person. Of course, humans are complex entities. As one got to know more about the person, their judgement of him/her would likely be modified.

 

 

[color:"red"] The problem we have with your POV is that you are assuming the opposite. That means that a prostitute is dishonest untill proven otherwise. I'd say that's a far cry from the basic principle established by the western judicial system of "being innocent untill proven guilty." I sincerely hope you don't work in het field of the law [/color]

 

What is a POV?

 

I am not in the field of law, but I do strongly support the priciple of "being innocent until proven guilty." By this I mean that I believe the state must not administer punishment until it has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty of the crime for which they are punished. I am not the state and do not have the authority or power of the government to punish anyone, so I am not bound by these restriction. But I am a fair-minded man. I try my best to deal with and respect people based on the judgments I have been able to form about them.

 

Harlequin