It makes me bloody angry!

[jasmine]

Hi,

 

[color:"red"] I think Jasmine and GTG would answer "No" to the second [/color]

 

20 years ago, it would have been easier to answer those questions. But now from the ex-BG I met, I hesitate to judge for I understand better about hardship, may it real or not. I respect their choice, but I don't have enough information to respect their choice of the profession. ::

 

Cheers!

[jasmine]

Hi,

 

[color:"red"] Surely if prostitution was such an unworthy profession you could find a girlfriend that would provide you with non-transactional sex (well sort of, but at least when you pay for dinners, movies, presents, it has the moral approval of Western society in general so you can rest easy). [/color]

 

Is it why some men got upset when we women don't get intimate after a dinner?

 

Kidding aside, I think we all provide a service for a salary (money). Sex, to many people is special, reserved for the ones you care and when you use such intimate thing to gain money, some people feel that they take an easy way to make a living and no respect is attached to it.

 

HQ is expressing the same thing that most of my Thai friends feel. Many Thai men use prostitution and ones will not find such word as "respect" to these women. One man I knew actually called them a "public semen recepticles" which was a little too much for me.

 

Most Western people respect other people's choices, perhaps that is why many feel that there is nothing wrong with prostitution, IMO.

 

Cheers!

[Guest]

Jasmine, it may be true that other Thai men feel the same as Harl does, but does that make a correct viewpoint?

 

Many people used to feel that women shouldn't vote and that blacks were inferior to whites.

 

I guess I look more at the person than the profession. While I agree that I would not look at a long-term or marriage with a BG, I try in all my dealings with them to treat them with honesty, dignity and yeah, respect. I don't put up with any BS, but I'm not conflicted about it.

 

I work in a very 'respectable' profession, but my work and the person who I am are two very separate things.

 

BTW, I was being a little facetious about the 'normal' dating scene. I still enjoy it, and although my Thai girlfriend is 'high class' she is still low maintenance as far as we're concerned! I can see your viewpoint about sex, and there is a definite difference between sex in a committed relationship than a short-time. But quite crudely and honestly, sometimes guys just wanna get laid.

[robaus]

It doesn't rain, but it pours. Ripped off, mugged... now this.

Last night 2 punters drinking at my friend's new bar threatened another girl with a bottle because she wouldn't go with them. Then they ran off without paying their bin before the taxi boys were called in to deal with them. They gave chase, but lost them. I'd be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my holiday if I were those guys.

The 3 girls who had served them have to cover the loss. My friend , on her first day back at work after being hurt in a mugging, was one of them. Not only that, another joker claimed he'd dirtied his shirt leaning against the bar, and refused to pay his bin as a result. Again, she had to foot his bill. The bar won't cover the loss. The wealthy mamasan/owner is as hard as nails. She owns several of the bars in the complex and even the 5 baht toilets. She has just introduced a new rule. The girls lose their 50 baht cut of the 200 baht barfine, unless the customer buys them at least 2 lady drinks. Another girl had to pay her own barfine for 2 days to attend her mother's funeral. And they have to work 13 hour shifts 5pm to 6am. I think the Thai Ruk Thai (Thais Love Thais) party will have their work cut out! I've told my friend to find another bar. Happy New Year!

[MaiLuk]

I'm looking for Harlequin the relinquish his sordid activities and devote his life to making merit at Wat Prak Kao. Surely it must be incredibly stressful to engage in an activity that he finds so disreputable.

 

Jasmine, I wouldn't necessarily find a lot 'honorable' about his stance. This is the same type of guy who would be preaching monogamy from the pulpit while porking his secretary.

 

Mmm... Harle-crite, any reply?

---

 

Casper:

 

I've been keeping up with this thread. I don't want to be in the position of defending Harlequin since I don't agree with his blanket vote of no respect for the girls. But I infer from his posts that he does not participate in the P4P scene. This is why he has been able to maintain his position throughout the debate without being a hypocrite.

 

I recall that he said in one of his early posts that he gets involved in the scene (too lazy to go looking for it), but he never said he Ps4P. He may have meant that he drinks in beer bars, or goes to the go go bars? So JJSushi was wrong to call him a hypocrite. I think your post was based on what you saw in one of JJSushi's posts, so its understandable that you thought Harlequin to be a hypocrite.

 

This is a long thread, if I missed something maybe someone will point it out?

 

Cheers

MaiLuk

[MaiLuk]

It doesn't rain, but it pours. Ripped off, mugged... now this.

---

 

Robaus:

 

This young lady of yours seems to get into alot of financial scrapes and then somehow word gets back to you. Could your initial generosity have something to do with this? :: :: ::

 

Not doubting the stories (you even saw the injuries from the mugging), I know its not an easy life she leads.

 

MaiLuk

[walletss]

" Part of the reason that I do not respect prostitutes is that they demand money ...."

 

Let us say that theoretically that being a bargirl is the lowest profession in Thailand, and then compare that to a profession of similar standing in Western Society. You could compare that to being a toilet cleaner a garbage collector. Take away the job opportunities of those that I just mentioned and what do you have? Do you have people who suddenly improve their ability and obtain a better job in a new career? No you don't..

You will have people living on welfare because in the real world the reality is that many individuals don't possess the education and intelligence to achieve greater heights. This doesn?t mean that they are underachievers but rather illustrates the disparity between differing abilities and opportunities. Many individuals do not have what it takes to perform beyond rudimentary tasks.

Extrapolate this to the harsher economic climate of Thailand and the example is magnified.. That is why I think it is wrong to judge and disrespect Thai bargirls as individuals who have taken the easy way out.

 

 

 

[sanukdee]

Win some, lose some i say. She is self -employed and that is the cost of doing business. Write it off as a business loss. If she wants a guaranteed wage she can work in a factory or department store.

[MaiLuk]

Hey Casper:

 

I got off my ass and reviewed the thread to see if Harlequin has been a hypocrite or not.

 

Here are some quotes in the order that they appeared in the thread:

 

Harlequin: All of us on this board have met prostitutes with a few years working experience...

---

 

Harlequin: I confess that I have enjoyed the nightlife that Thailand has to offer. I enjoyed it a lot more on my first visit to the LOS when I didn't really know about the dark side which I have discussed above.

I can still enjoy it, but not as much as before because I understand what is behind it.

---

 

Soongmak asked: What??s dishonest about being a prostitute? You provide a service to the needy,

of which you are one, remember? Tell me where??s the dishonesty in that?

 

Harlequin?s answer: It is not necessarily dishonest to be a prostitute...

---

 

Harlequin did not deny the accusation that he is one of the 'needy' (but silence doesn't always mean too much).

 

 

 

Harlequin:

IMHO, many punters in Thailand are aware of the 'dark side' that I am referring to; certainly most of the expats or frequent visitors are aware. Yet many of them still indulge and enjoy it. Hey, we're only human - we all have our vices, eh?

 

---

 

Harlequin:

I have stated previously that I have enjoyed the nightlife in Thailand. I will decline to provide any more details about exactly how I enjoy the nightlife, or what I tell my friends or family about how I it. It is my private life which I perfer not to discuss in a public forum with strangers.

---

 

Soongmak:

What do you think of punters who enjoy the p4p scene, but look down on the girls they have sex with.

How can they justify to think that they are superior to the girls who's services they enjoy?

 

 

Harlequin:

- I think punters who enjoy the p4p scene, but at the same time look down on prostitutes, are hypocrites.

- I have little idea how such a punter referred to above would justify the superiority they felt if they felt that way. I can only guess at this.

Now you know my take on this.

I fail to see how the details of my personal life are essential to this dicussion.

---

 

Soongmak:

However it is important for me if I am dealing with a hypocrite on the subject matter or not. If you were (are) a punter who occasionally uses the service of prostitutes but looks down on them at the same time, you are pathetic and simply not worth my time. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt though.

 

Harlequin:

In that case, you have have a choice:

 

1) Pretend I have no P4P experience so that you can 'attack' my position instead of me.

 

2) Pretend that I do have P4P experience, and stop debating with me because you think I am pathetic and not worth your time.

 

---

 

 

In my earlier post to you I said I inferred that Harlequin does not P4P. Maybe I should infer the opposite? ::

 

If Harlequin does the P4P thing, is he a hypocrite? I'm certain many girls are being P4P but don't respect the punter who is paying. Are the girls hypocrites? ::

 

 

MaiLuk

[Guest]

Well, you have to make your own judgement about Harlequin. From my perspective its pretty clear.

 

Brief reply to your question: If a BG got on this forum and said that 'johns' or 'customers' or whatever euphemism they use for us were somehow disreputable I would have to call her on it too. I mean, fair's fair right?

 

You rightly ask me to be consistent with my views. Of course, I don't find anything inherently 'wrong' with prostitution. I find our system of child support, lack of father's rights, a patriarchal alimony system still in place for a supposed egalitarian society much more offensive (sounds like I've been married huh? These are some reasons I'm still single!)