Usa Thread

[dave32]

187 (as slang and pop culture reference) has become almost as universal as 'dude,' well - maybe not THAT much, but it's ubiquitous now -- interesting reflection of the times?

 

Incidental, I don't even perceive that much disagreement in this conversation. I think that one side says that speech, whether inflammatory or not, doesn't bear the brunt of responsibility for an individual acting out in violence and taking a life.

 

The other side is saying, that yes - while it may not bear the brunt of responsibility -- these things can influence people and it should be recognized/indentified.

 

Common ground?

 

LK does have a tendency to belabor the point.

[dave32]

Interview with school friend of Loughner. Kinda interesting.

 

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

 

Thanks. Best piece I've read re: this mess.

 

Interesting snip:

 

"After Loughner apparently gave up drugs and booze, "his theories got worse," Tierney says. "After he quit, he was just off the wall." And Loughner started to drift away from his group of friends about a year ago."

 

I've always ascribed more horrors in the world due to fucked up beliefs than alcohol intake.

[chuckwoww]

According to this his parents can't understand why it happened...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110111/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot

[Old Hippie]

uh, hum...minor correction. 187 is penal code section for murder. :content:

 

HH

 

Think you are right, 186 deals with profiting from organized crime.

 

[Flashermac]

Dem Congressman who called for GOP Gov. to be put against a wall and shot now pleads for civility

 

 

 

Ex-Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa, pens an op-ed in the New York Times today about the proper political response to this weekend's tragedy. I wholeheartedly support the former Congressman (Kanjorski lost his seat in November) when he argues that, following this weekend's shooting, Congressman need to remain open and accessible to the public. However, Kanjorski is rather hypocritical when he climbs up on his soapbox:

 

We all lose an element of freedom when security considerations distance public officials from the people. Therefore, it is incumbent on all Americans to create an atmosphere of civility and respect in which political discourse can flow freely, without fear of violent confrontation.

 

Incumbent on all Americans to create an atmosphere of civility and respect? Congressman heal thyself! Yesterday, I noted that, according to the Scranton Times, Kanjorski said this about Florida's new Republican Governor Rick Scott on October 23:

 

[color:red]"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."[/color]

 

I'll give Kanjorski the benefit of the doubt that he did not literally mean Scott schould be killed. Regardless, Kanjorski's way over the rhetorical line compared to the kinds of statements liberals are pointing to as evidence that Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh are creating a "climate of hate," to borrow Paul Krugman's phrase. And somehow I doubt that there would have been crickets from the national media if a Republican politician called for a Democratic candidate to be shot barely a week before the election.

 

 

 

Link

[Hugh_Hoy]

In the meantime, Palin has sent a message that is "right on".

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110112/pl_nm/us_usa_shooting_palin;_ylt=AifNdXNx2DKgo_Zkx2zo_XJvzwcF;_ylu=X3oDMTJtNWFoYTFxBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwMTEyL3VzX3VzYV9zaG9vdGluZ19wYWxpbgRjcG9zAzMEcG9zAzkEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDc2FyYWhwYWxpbmFj

 

HH

[chuckwoww]

Looking for a more in depth debate on blood libel than Hugh provides? Try this...

 

http://www.politico.com/arena/archive/what-should-obama-say-in-tucson.html

 

All part of the dumbing down process IMO. Kinda like throwing Hitler and Holocaust around. Ultimately it cheapens the brand.

[Hugh_Hoy]

Israeli's and Jews sterotypically claim copyright to stuff. I'd never heard the term "blood libel" before, accordingly did not realize that it was owned by Jews.

 

Overall, a balanced group of opinions; not surprisingly, partisan. The elite professor from that Northeastern university who thought Palin should be "publically shunned": I can see why the Northeast is liberal. I would have had as much fun with him in class as I did with my liberal-assed sociology prof who taught my juvenile delinquency class (ripped his liberal butt more than once in class and in bluebooks. 5555555555)

 

HH

[chuckwoww]

It makes for an interesting intellectual debate which will be totally wasted on Palin supporters.

 

I liked the linguistics professor Deborah Tannen...

 

I'll bet those who are using "blood libel" are unaware of its original meaning. Unfortunate as this use will (rightly, I'd say) seem to many, it's an inevitable process that linguists call "semantic bleaching": over time, words and phrases can lose their literal meaning, as they are used in more and more tangentially related ways.

 

It seems that "blood libel" is being used to mean "an outrageously unfounded accusation," borrowing an element of the phrase's original meaning while losing its literal context and content. This doesn't mean that it isn't useful to remind people of the phrase's original meaning, but I suspect that won't stop some from continuing to use it in new ways, because the emotional overtones of the phrase feel right to them.

[Hugh_Hoy]

It makes for an interesting intellectual debate which will be totally wasted on Palin supporters.

 

Probably not moreso than on her "elite" detractors. :content:

 

Your linguist's explanation seems to make a fair assessment. For instance, I would be quite surprised to hear a member say about a Friday night meet at Los Cabos "we had a gay time" (though a ruling from OH might clarify).

 

I doubt if Palin authored the term "blood libel" in her response; guessing that a speech writer used it and she went with it (probably not knowing the "origin" or the term). Still, I think that the words themselves (absent nexus to any historical significance)aptly describe the actions of some "news" writers, commentators and politicians (and a board member or two) who rushed to smear her with the blood of the Tucson shooting victims.

 

HH