When Will You Call Thailand Your Home?

[up2you2]

This is dedicated to those that still have a packed suitcase at the bottom of their beds, ready to depart at a moments notice.

 

I suppose some may comment what's your definition of home.

Well let me tell you mine.

 

I first came here physically, solely vacations, and then one early morning flying into Don Muang looking out at the rice fields below, I don't know why but I thought to myself I'm coming home.

This was the emotional stage.

Next up after my Mother passed away I thought to myself, well lets see if I can handle the humid monsoon season. As a couple of mates of mine said they actually preferred it.

Not so bad, and it's true with time you do adjust.

So now this left the physiological stage, could I in theory, let alone in practice divide my heart between two continents. Sit on the fence, run two homes with all the inherent costs that are involved.

For the first ten years I didn't have a choice as I couldn't sell my home, so I rented.

Finally I did sell, so this left the last decision to make, the financial one.

Importing committed funds into Thailand to establish a home.

These are the steps I took on this staircase to contentment, I recommend them to others as they served me well.

[Mekong]

I first came to Thailand in 1988 when I was working in a neighbouring country, was forunate enough to get a Job here in 1991 and have been based here ever since. I have owned property here, lost proerty in a bitter divorce and fought through the Thai Courts for compensation, which I did get, but even though I am into my 23rd year here Thailand will never truely be home. A home base yes but not home.

 

Even if I was to have PR, I would not have the same rights as say a Green Card holder in the USA or if I was to obtain Nationality as a foreigner to my home country the UK, or any other EU country, even with PR we are still treated as second class citizens, not allowed the right to vote, empoyment restrictions, not allowed to trade on the Stock Market etc etc.

 

Also be careful about bank accounts here, according to Financial Regulations if a financial institution went into administration then you are only entitled to 1 Million Baht Compensation so if you have more than I Million in Liquid assets then spread the risk and have accounts at multiple banks plus we get screwed with lower interest rates hence the reason I prefer to bank in Singapore and Hong Kong and transfer funds into Thailand as and when required.

 

As much as I enjoy living here and will hopefully one day retire here and see out the twiglight years of my life here I do recognise the fact that I wil always be classed as a second class citizen in the country and could never truely call it home. Plus I would never give up my British Passport, one of the most powerful documents in the world, allows me into more countries visa free or visa on arrival than any other passport.

 

So basically for me Thailand is a home base but somewhere I could never truely call home, I could be deported tomorrow for the slighest infrindgment of laws, Civil, Criminal or Immigration without the right to appeal, home to me will always be the UK.

 

Again these are just my thoughts and opinions and I am sure others may disagree.

 

Good topic for a thread looking forward to hearing from others and their opinions.

 

Kong

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

I'm with Mekong on this. No matter how long you live here or how well you integrate, you will ALWAYS be seen as an outsider, especially by the government. PM is quite hard to get, and is really a fucking joke anyways. As Mekong pointed out, even with PM you still need a separate work permit in order to work and earn a living. Ass about that tit that of course, you're allowed to live her 'forever' but if you want to sustain yourself you need to still apply for permission (and I assume this will still need to be done every year just like your visa before getting PM).

 

"I could be deported tomorrow for the slighest infrindgment of laws, Civil, Criminal or Immigration without the right to appeal"

 

It is that more than anything that will always prevent me from calling this country 'home'.

 

No matter what you've contributed to this country, the government can kick you out on a moment's notice.

For example, if you quit your job or get fired and are on a Non-B visa, you have 7 days to fuck off out of the country. Sure, you can get another visa and return, but it is the principle behind it. You could have paid taxes for years (unlike the majority of Thais!), yet none of it matters.

 

Sanuk!

[Mekong]

Hi,

 

I'm with Mekong on this. No matter how long you live here or how well you integrate, you will ALWAYS be seen as an outsider, especially by the government. PM is quite hard to get, and is really a fucking joke anyways. As Mekong pointed out, even with PM you still need a separate work permit in order to work and earn a living. Ass about that tit that of course, you're allowed to live her 'forever' but if you want to sustain yourself you need to still apply for permission (and I assume this will still need to be done every year just like your visa before getting PM).

 

"I could be deported tomorrow for the slighest infrindgment of laws, Civil, Criminal or Immigration without the right to appeal"

 

It is that more than anything that will always prevent me from calling this country 'home'.

 

No matter what you've contributed to this country, the government can kick you out on a moment's notice.

For example, if you quit your job or get fired and are on a Non-B visa, you have 7 days to fuck off out of the country. Sure, you can get another visa and return, but it is the principle behind it. You could have paid taxes for years (unlike the majority of Thais!), yet none of it matters.

 

Sanuk!

 

KS,

 

I went through exactly this in 2008 when my contract was not renewed I was given 7 days to leave, I was like WTF I have paid taxes here for years and have a multimillion Baht property registered in my name complete with the Yellow Taliban Baan (Yellow = Foreign Owned Blue = Thai Owned) yet you want me to fuck off now?

 

I had to make a fast border run to Poipet to get a 30 day VOA, back in the days when you could get 30 days on border crossings unlike the 15 days now, then much against my better judgement had to register my marrriage at city hall within 30 days, much against my better judgement, then apply for Non-Imm O before the 30 days expired.

 

The storey about how my Thai wife tried to screw me over is well documented in another thread for those bored enough to read the story so I wont repeat it again here.

 

Since she tried to literally throw me out of the country and refused to come to immigration to apply for my 12 months extension to stay immigration told me again, you have to leave once your Non-Imm O expires, I was like WTF can I not apply for a Visa in order to fight the divorce case and get some of my money back, they were like "No Sorry Sir rules are rules"

 

So yet again I had to fuck off out of the country to arrange another visa, by now restricted to 15 days on a border crossing so I had to go to Singapore, even then I explained I required tourist visa in order to have time to arrange my own Non-Imm B they were insistant that I had an onward ticket. I legged it from Thai Embassy on Orchid Road to Orchid towers where I knew there were many travel agents that the working girls use and asked for the cheapest ticket out of Thailand, it's not cheap sir but Siam Reap is your cheapest option, I was I dont care abut the cost just issue me a ticket ASAP I need to be back at Thai Embassy before midday and put my credit card on the desk. Luckily I found a good Travel Agent who understood my prediciment and issued a ticket within 5 minutes and said to me "Good Luck Sir" as I left her office. I still have that ticket now, unused and unrefundable, but I will never forget how helpful she was.

 

I got back to Thai Embassy 10 minutes to 12 and then showed my ticket as required and was told "But Sir you have no visa for Cambodia" by then I was prepared to blow a fuse but one thing Thailand has taught me is "Jai Yen" loose your temper and you have lost the argument so I politely pointed out that I am entitled to apply for Cambodian Visa in BKK and it is not required at this moment, could you please show me rules which contradict my comment or issue the Visa? Finally at 12:05 I got confirmation I was correct but I would have to return the folowing day for visa applicaton.

 

Again I was seeing red but bit my tongue and explained "Excuse me Madam I made my application at 11:50 it is not my problem that it took you 15 minutes to get confirmation from your superior and as such I expect my Visa application to be processed today" now as angry as I was I still managed to remain polite even though deep down inside I wanted to reach across the counter give her a slap and shout "Listen to me Bitch" but fortunately many years ago I learned how to hide emotions especially anger at bad service so I kept my cool (Just) eventually she returned and said "I Apologise for the delay Sir you are correct and your visa application will be processed today" So I thanked her and took my receipt then picked up my visa the following afternoon.

 

I was still fucked, I had 60 days plus 30 day extension to make my visa more permenant so I wasn't quite there yet. Now as much as Mr Muchmaster claims that I state that I have a Hi-So Lawyer she is far from it her whole family is the local mafia, as the eldest of her generation she was picked to study law, who is the best lawyer for a mafia type family to have than one of their own, Hi-So my arse!

 

So she arranged for me to set up a Thai Company so I could get a Non-Imm B, I was like "But I need 2 Million Baht and 4 directors" she told me "Shut the Fuck Up," we can set up a company with no assets and family will help out. By this time I had allowed her to see every email between my now ex-wife and myself hence the reason she saw the injustice and was prepared to assist me. Jeez my Co-Director was her Uncle the head of the local mafia who is a greay guy as long as you show him respect, get on his wrong side and you may end up with a bullet in the head within 24 hours from one of his hitmen, HI-So Lawyer my arse but she saved me and my assets in the long run but honestly she is a criminal from a family of criminals but guess what I have not always been an upstanding law abiding member of society, but I have grown out of them days now.

 

These are just a couple of examples of the hoops we have to jump through in order to survive in this country, you do need balls just to get justice, I am not proud of my previous business connections but what other choice did I have? accept immigration interptretaion of rules and leave the country and loose everything or find a way to stay and fight, OK my company diectors and shareholders were all bunch of crooks, but more honest than my alledged Hi-So Ex wifes family who tried so much in misappropriation of funds, Illegal Transfers etc, the ex chose her team to do battle and I chose mine, it really is Dog eat Dog over here and much against what many farangs have told me, I won against the odds.

 

KS,

 

You know that I respect you as a person in life but also respect your opinion so I am quite happy that we both agree on this point, to be honest I never doubted that you would disagree with me, we, along with others could complain about the injustice of being a foreigner in Thailand until the cows (or Kwai in Thai) came home but we still choose to make it our home base, are we mad or can we both see that the positives outweigh the negatives, I often find myself asking myself the same question, why am I still here?

 

To be honest I am quite looking forward to spending 12 months "Back Home" in the UK to allow me to recondsider my options, my mafia family lawyer and I are now married and she was educated in Manchester so returning to UK will be a trip down memory lane for her rather than a new experience. She now has the family land in Lampung and has put it all in my name on a 35 year lease agreement in Thai and a certified English translation which has been confirmed by my English Lawyer, hey I was screwed over once never again but at least my wife undestands my concerns, in fact she is happy that I am thinking about the future and respects my opinion, in fact she has stated "you would be a fucking idiot to trust me without a second opinion" I cannot argue with that attitude.

 

Some Thai's want you to be intergted but the archaic or may i say xenophobic laws from the authorities will never allow us to be anything else but second class citizen no matter what.

 

My old friend who first introduced me to Thailand 25 years ago gave me a piece of advice which always rings true to me.

 

"Thailand is like a casino, only put in what you can afford to loose or it will all end in tears"

 

Probably the best advice I have ever heared and a rule I still follow to this day.

 

Kong

[Redbaron]

Well put lads, a few western governments could learn a bit from the Thai government on kicking foreigners out for breaking laws - our prisons are overflowing but we allow foreigners to stay who have been charged with the worst crimes..

 

As stated, you will always be "the farang" - and that will never change in LOS. Can't see myself ever moving there full time, for me it will always just be another holiday destination, albeit one of my favourites and most visited place.

I could see myself going down hill quite quickly in a place like Thailand, especially if immigrating there alone. I'll never reach the upper echelons of being an "expat", well not in Thailand anyway, but that's easy worth living an extra x number of years.

 

Love the place, but long term, expat living - away from the people who keep me on the straight and narrow in a place which can and will continue to change the rules for farangs... might just take extended holidays I think.

[dean]

I have a house in Chiang Mai (which my wife will visit all summer and I will also in July) and in Kansas City (in a very well regarded school district where my wife's 3 kids attend and my 5 year old will start next August). I'd have to side with Kong and KS that, even when I lived in Chiang Mai for 3 years and built a house there and intended to live there for the next 30 years, I never felt accepted as a welcome expat, for the same reasons as stated above. If I live another 11 years, which puts me at 70, I will probably return to Thailand for good. By then, I will know if my 5 year old son (who has dual citizenship) is interested in living in LOS after school or stay in the U.S. Like many immigrants to the U.S., I expect my son to receive all the rights due to a thai citizen. If he wants to be a lawyer, he can get law degrees from both the U.S. and Thailand and practice law freely while in Thailand. Whatever work he may be involved in while in LOS won't require him to jump through immigration/visa hoops. And he can outright own the house and land that my wife now has in her name in Chiang Mai/Saraphi. I can accept living in Thailand, knowing my son's life will can a lot easier than most living in LOS, thai and foreigner.

[Flashermac]

It is always a good idea to have your own visa. The problem is that having your visa tied to your job means if your job ends, so does your visa. That happened to me once in the 1980s. I had to rush down to Penang for another visa to give me time to find another job. Fortunately, I did so very quickly. We also used to be able to transfer our WP from one job to another. Not any more ... have to surrender it and apply for a new one.

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

Never understood why the Thai gov is making it so hard for foreigners to work here. You'd think they'd welcome skilled labour or people interested in setting up companies, but no, they do their best to make life as hard as possible for them.

 

Sanuk!

[The_Munchmaster]

To be honest I am quite looking forward to spending 12 months "Back Home" in the UK to allow me to recondsider my options,.....

 

I thought you had less than 5 years to live so your options are surely limited?

[The_Munchmaster]

KS,

 

I went through exactly this in 2008 when my contract was not renewed I was given 7 days to leave, I was like WTF I have paid taxes here for years and have a multimillion Baht property registered in my name complete with the Yellow Taliban Baan (Yellow = Foreign Owned Blue = Thai Owned) yet you want me to fuck off now?

 

I had to make a fast border run to Poipet to get a 30 day VOA, back in the days when you could get 30 days on border crossings unlike the 15 days now, then much against my better judgement had to register my marrriage at city hall within 30 days, much against my better judgement, then apply for Non-Imm O before the 30 days expired.

 

The storey about how my Thai wife tried to screw me over is well documented in another thread for those bored enough to read the story so I wont repeat it again here.

 

Since she tried to literally throw me out of the country and refused to come to immigration to apply for my 12 months extension to stay immigration told me again, you have to leave once your Non-Imm O expires, I was like WTF can I not apply for a Visa in order to fight the divorce case and get some of my money back, they were like "No Sorry Sir rules are rules"

 

So yet again I had to fuck off out of the country to arrange another visa, by now restricted to 15 days on a border crossing so I had to go to Singapore, even then I explained I required tourist visa in order to have time to arrange my own Non-Imm B they were insistant that I had an onward ticket. I legged it from Thai Embassy on Orchid Road to Orchid towers where I knew there were many travel agents that the working girls use and asked for the cheapest ticket out of Thailand, it's not cheap sir but Siam Reap is your cheapest option, I was I dont care abut the cost just issue me a ticket ASAP I need to be back at Thai Embassy before midday and put my credit card on the desk. Luckily I found a good Travel Agent who understood my prediciment and issued a ticket within 5 minutes and said to me "Good Luck Sir" as I left her office. I still have that ticket now, unused and unrefundable, but I will never forget how helpful she was.

 

I got back to Thai Embassy 10 minutes to 12 and then showed my ticket as required and was told "But Sir you have no visa for Cambodia" by then I was prepared to blow a fuse but one thing Thailand has taught me is "Jai Yen" loose your temper and you have lost the argument so I politely pointed out that I am entitled to apply for Cambodian Visa in BKK and it is not required at this moment, could you please show me rules which contradict my comment or issue the Visa? Finally at 12:05 I got confirmation I was correct but I would have to return the folowing day for visa applicaton.

 

Again I was seeing red but bit my tongue and explained "Excuse me Madam I made my application at 11:50 it is not my problem that it took you 15 minutes to get confirmation from your superior and as such I expect my Visa application to be processed today" now as angry as I was I still managed to remain polite even though deep down inside I wanted to reach across the counter give her a slap and shout "Listen to me Bitch" but fortunately many years ago I learned how to hide emotions especially anger at bad service so I kept my cool (Just) eventually she returned and said "I Apologise for the delay Sir you are correct and your visa application will be processed today" So I thanked her and took my receipt then picked up my visa the following afternoon.

 

I was still fucked, I had 60 days plus 30 day extension to make my visa more permenant so I wasn't quite there yet. Now as much as Mr Muchmaster claims that I state that I have a Hi-So Lawyer she is far from it her whole family is the local mafia, as the eldest of her generation she was picked to study law, who is the best lawyer for a mafia type family to have than one of their own, Hi-So my arse!

 

So she arranged for me to set up a Thai Company so I could get a Non-Imm B, I was like "But I need 2 Million Baht and 4 directors" she told me "Shut the Fuck Up," we can set up a company with no assets and family will help out. By this time I had allowed her to see every email between my now ex-wife and myself hence the reason she saw the injustice and was prepared to assist me. Jeez my Co-Director was her Uncle the head of the local mafia who is a greay guy as long as you show him respect, get on his wrong side and you may end up with a bullet in the head within 24 hours from one of his hitmen, HI-So Lawyer my arse but she saved me and my assets in the long run but honestly she is a criminal from a family of criminals but guess what I have not always been an upstanding law abiding member of society, but I have grown out of them days now.

 

These are just a couple of examples of the hoops we have to jump through in order to survive in this country, you do need balls just to get justice, I am not proud of my previous business connections but what other choice did I have? accept immigration interptretaion of rules and leave the country and loose everything or find a way to stay and fight, OK my company diectors and shareholders were all bunch of crooks, but more honest than my alledged Hi-So Ex wifes family who tried so much in misappropriation of funds, Illegal Transfers etc, the ex chose her team to do battle and I chose mine, it really is Dog eat Dog over here and much against what many farangs have told me, I won against the odds.

 

KS,

 

You know that I respect you as a person in life but also respect your opinion so I am quite happy that we both agree on this point, to be honest I never doubted that you would disagree with me, we, along with others could complain about the injustice of being a foreigner in Thailand until the cows (or Kwai in Thai) came home but we still choose to make it our home base, are we mad or can we both see that the positives outweigh the negatives, I often find myself asking myself the same question, why am I still here?

 

To be honest I am quite looking forward to spending 12 months "Back Home" in the UK to allow me to recondsider my options, my mafia family lawyer and I are now married and she was educated in Manchester so returning to UK will be a trip down memory lane for her rather than a new experience. She now has the family land in Lampung and has put it all in my name on a 35 year lease agreement in Thai and a certified English translation which has been confirmed by my English Lawyer, hey I was screwed over once never again but at least my wife undestands my concerns, in fact she is happy that I am thinking about the future and respects my opinion, in fact she has stated "you would be a fucking idiot to trust me without a second opinion" I cannot argue with that attitude.

 

Some Thai's want you to be intergted but the archaic or may i say xenophobic laws from the authorities will never allow us to be anything else but second class citizen no matter what.

 

My old friend who first introduced me to Thailand 25 years ago gave me a piece of advice which always rings true to me.

 

"Thailand is like a casino, only put in what you can afford to loose or it will all end in tears"

 

Probably the best advice I have ever heared and a rule I still follow to this day.

 

Kong

 

You sure are desparate to tell us all about yourself (again?!). Just up to the readers how much they choose to believe and how much they don't.