Guest Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 As Thailand comes into its own, in regards to becoming a 'world force', it will most certainly clean up its 'mess' along the way. Hell..time to wake up, fellow punters.....it's already started, as we all know. There will be blimps on the screen, along the way. But in the not-too-distant-future, Thailand, and its 60 million citizens, will demand that it become 'respectable', as it makes inroads into the global community. I was seconded to Thailand in 1994 - when Thailand was an up and coming "tiger" economy about to acheive NIC status - and I heard exactly this same type of rhetoric. This was before the 1997 financial crisis when virtually all of the local political and business leaders were absolutely certain that Thailand was about to become another Singapore. There were a few economists pointing out this was unlikely to occur (see Paul Krugmann's article in the Fall 1994 edition of Foreign Policy Review), but they were ignored as Westerners who didn't understand the Asian economic miracle, who, according to the then prevailing wisdom in Thailand, mistakenly believed that the economic principles that applied to Western economies also applied to Asian economies. And then came June of 1997, and those who were claiming that in the "not-too-distant-future, Thailand" would join the ranks of Singapore fell silent. And now in 2002 we hear those same voices again - from the same people in fact - claiming that Thailand is on the brink of becoming a prosperous country the Thai way. No need for me to "wake up." I am wide awake and have seen it before. I not only saw it; I lived through it. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this day in the "not-to-distant future" when Thailand becomes a "world force." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 I was seconded to Thailand in 1994 - when Thailand was an up and coming "tiger" economy about to acheive NIC status - and I heard exactly this same type of rhetoric. This was before the 1997 financial crisis when virtually all of the local political and business leaders were absolutely certain that Thailand was about to become another Singapore. There were a few economists pointing out this was unlikely to occur (see Paul Krugmann's article in the Fall 1994 edition of Foreign Policy Review), but they were ignored as Westerners who didn't understand the Asian economic miracle, who, according to the then prevailing wisdom in Thailand, mistakenly believed that the economic principles that applied to Western economies also applied to Asian economies. And then came June of 1997, and those who were claiming that in the "not-too-distant-future, Thailand" would join the ranks of Singapore fell silent. And now in 2002 we hear those same voices again - from the same people in fact - claiming that Thailand is on the brink of becoming a prosperous country the Thai way. No need for me to "wake up." I am wide awake and have seen it before. I not only saw it; I lived through it. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this day in the "not-to-distant future" when Thailand becomes a "world force." Gadfly, I almost completely agree with you?re a.m. statement. Thailand and a ?world power? ? that?s a nice fairy tale. Thailand even has to struggle to become a regional power. The real big obstacle to even become a regional power is the new political and economical landscape of East Asia, which is developing right now. With the ever growing economic power of China it becomes more and more difficult for SE Asian nations to achieve an economic edge over the others. Maybe, just maybe the solution lies in a strong ASEAN community, which acts and deals together with one voice, something like the EU. But that might take another decade, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 "No need for me to "wake up." I am wide awake and have seen it before. I not only saw it; I lived through it. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this day in the "not-to-distant future" when Thailand becomes a "world force." " Its hardly fair to measure Thailands development by comparing it to the "world powers". The right approach is to look at Thailand compared to countries in the region. Its also pretty unfair to focus on the meltdown which affected the whole Asian economy. Take a look at things in a longer perspective, lets say the last 30 years. Thailand have developed from a very poor country which even was troubled by communist unrest to a healthy state today. Yes, I call it healthy. Because you don't compare teams in the amateur leagues to the pro ones. Thailand have taken huge leaps ahead of several countries which were better off if you look further than a few years back... Changes have happened very fast, and can do so either way in the future. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 Hi Gadfly1, I understand what you are saying, and you may very well be right. By in-the-not-too-distant-future, I was not talking about next year...but in a relative form....1 decade, 2 decades? And it's not that Thailand needs to achieve 'world force' (which by the way, I probably worded too strongly), but only to start making inroads, and see itself having any opportunity to compete globaly. It will clean things up *before*, and not *after*, making a serious attempt to do so. I don't think the prostitution that exists in Thailand now, will be the same 10-20 years from now. A couple reasons are: I started a thread a while back called "Made in Thailand". It was born from the fact that so many products here in Hawaii are made in Thailand (after looking at the back of my Casio watch), and seeing wood products that I bring in for my business here, showing up in all sorts of places. Products from Thailand are making serious inroads here, but maybe just isolated to Hawaii?? Made in Thailand products used to mean what "Made in Japan" products meant in the 50's and 60's.....cheap junk. That is becoming less and less the case over the last decade. New BTS, new subway soon (OK...both may go bankrupt :....BKK is a city of growth, albeit erradict. It only needs to "try" to enter the global stage, to have an effect on it's policies regarding prostitution. You cannot discount the recent closing of all bars at 2:00 a.m., as insignificant. While it may waver back and forth for a while, I do believe the writing is on the wall. The directive for this was not territorial, and for only 1 month. It was essentialy a policy affecting all of Thailand, and well publicized to its citizens, as an attempt to clean things up (Thai teens doing drugs...whatever). Also, while I've not heard about the progress for a while, there was a plan to isolate 'entertainment area's' to only 3, and only one of those would be allowed to be open past 2:00 am. ****Just as a note, I think it is crazy for them to close every bar at 2:00 am. To close all venues (Grace, Thermae, etc.) only places everyone out on the street, where there is a great loss of control to monitor the scene. At least the majority of (at least the farang market) used to be contained. The end result in this recent clean-up reform, it would seem, is the desire, and certainly a wise one for both sides (if you think about it), to have activities confined to specific small area's. Putting everyone out on every soi at 2am can only create an unmanageble underground situation, impossible to control. But...TIT?***** Just as the airplane changed forever our awareness of cultures other than our own, so has the internet. Thailand is now an open book, much more so than before. The advent of the 'internet cafe' on almost every block in BKK, insures that whatever happens there, at any given moment, will be instantly transmitted to the world, at large. The importance of this fact, relating to Thailand's image (reputation, if you will), cannot be over-emphasized. It is simply mind-boggling, and a huge issue that will have a great affect (more so) on the sanuk scene there, more than anything else. The introduction of live-wire satelite feeds, from pin-whole sized, high resolution cameras (with sound), will have a very profound effect.....Technology, in the very near future, will change the landscape in LOS. Anonominity will no longer be possible. That alone, will eliminate 60% of the trade, at least. What happens then?....It goes underground, and then becomes an impossible situation to control, which no one wants. How that is dealt with, is anyone's guess. As technology advances, our freedoms to live life, as we wish, deminishes, in an equal capasity. Technology sucks. I hate it. But I can't stop it. In the end, it will destroy all cultures, and turn us all into a bunch of freaking robots, speaking the same language, eating the same food, and thinking the same thoughts. That is the ultimate future, like it, or not, as we travel down the road of progress. It's good we live now, and not then. I believe in a number of other reasons that will cause Thailand to take a stance against it's perceived lax attitude towards it's prostitution situation, but that is for another day. :: Attack at will...... :: Just my rant, and only a personal opinion. Don't read too much into it. Just taking a break from this insane Christmas stuff. :: HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 "I'm not sure these things really do support your point. * The 2AM curfew was much more broadly targeted than just at the farang-oriented sex venues. * Clamp-down on nudity: this one of the three things you mentioned works best for your purposes. But even this has eroded to the point where it's not difficult to find nudity. * The drug testing on farangs has thus far been in places like Q-Bar -- not part of the "farang sex scene" (this was recently discussed in another thread" I agree that the prupose of these actions might not have been meant to hit the farang sex industry, but in effect they have all done that. So if Thailand didn't even consider the effect on the industry, is it that important to them? Who is to say if similar things won't happen and to a greater effect? Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 Hi Gadfly1, Sorry.....just wanted to make another point, which was my original thought on your post. Historical data relating to how things might go, given previous actions, seem to me, to be much less rooted in reality these days. Too much has happened in our short lives, at an accelerated rate, to think along these lines. Historical stock market data???, Political strongholds???.....All a thing of the past. Trying to apply the old rules just don't apply any longer. There is just too many other pressures being applied, that never existed before, to come to a logical sumation. History, while in the past, used to be a good barometer of the future.?????? Not so, any more folks. We have become a brave new world, never traveled, where such assumtions become futile. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 but enjoy things while you can -------------------------------------------- Actually, given the new permissiveness and definite sex liberation that is occuring in Thailand, I think in 10 years, there should not be any problem for decent farangs to meet or flirt with thai women. As long as they are not disgusting fat bastards or old :drunk:s.... :: :: :: PS: only problem, it will be freeeee.... I think some will not be able to adjust, that's for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 There are weeks where I feel like I have aged years. --------------------------- but you have not. You are making light of the the subject again. I was not talking about material conditions, or long hours, but the fact that, for example thay hardly see their kids. I have a hard time believing you have been acquainted to girls from the trade, and not felt once, what a waste that these girls have never been able to be given a decent education. What I find most regrettable about these young women, that you find just normal -cool! it's like having fun and making money at the same time (make sure to avoid orphans, drugs, and aids, hardly regrettable topics )- is that they have interiorized the fact that they are not to wish for better education, for a life where they do something with themselves, not to some guy, or owing to the family. The regrettable thing here is not that they choose prostitution but that it's ok to choose it. There are some places in this world where women are women, some, like Thailand, where they are ONLY women. i am quite certain you've been with a few, but I am not sure you took the pain to look behind the giggles, and see the other side of their situation. A choice between a rock and a hard place is no choice. it's making do. that's what they do, not choosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibblies Posted December 23, 2002 Report Share Posted December 23, 2002 Says HIGH THAIED: Hi Gadfly1, Historical stock market data???, Political strongholds???.....All a thing of the past. Trying to apply the old rules just don't apply any longer. There is just too many other pressures being applied, that never existed before, to come to a logical sumation. History, while in the past, used to be a good barometer of the future.?????? Not so, any more folks. We have become a brave new world, never traveled, where such assumtions become futile. I hope you didn't put money behind that thinking in the stockmarket of 1999/2000 because you'd have taken some pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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