Goodthaigirl Posted December 19, 2002 Report Share Posted December 19, 2002 Says Falang: I am doing just the opposite, I try and achieve to change people's mind about Thailand. I live in a little town and since I have travel the last 5 years in Thailand the travel agency here is putting me in relation with people who are thinking to go to Thailand for their vacation. I sometime find that for some people the only thing that was holding them to go was the prostitution perception that it was everywhere and providing for pedophile. I had to explain without hiding the fact that the prostitution was there but not everywhere and that Thailand was much more than that. Every person or couples that I spoke to have made a trip to Thailand and found out what I was saying to them was right and admit that Thailand was much more than that. One couple I met 3 years a go are leaving for the third time next January for Thailand . The comment that all of them made when they came back was that they were impress by the hospitality of the Thai people. You're doing us a great service. If I work for Tourism Authority of Thailand I'll give you a medel. You're an ! I do the same when I'm abroad -giving out pamphlets and telling them about Thailand. Some of the people I meet are so ignorance but I don't blame them. But some of them mention Thai traditional dance to me when they don't even sure that Bangkok is the capital city !!!!!! This means that sometimes people learn positively about Thailand too. Sadly, it is an exception than the rules. Says Falang: I think I made a very little difference about the perception of Thailand but those people who made a trip to LOS are now making a little difference to. Maybe if everybody who is travelling to Thailand on this board try to make that little difference maybe it will become a big difference, don't you think? Yes, if everybody tell others in their neck of the wood nice things about Thailand, it will be GREAT. In addition, you are showing others an alternative holiday destination. You're helping them good too. It's a win-win situation. Falang, you have made a big difference ! Thanks, from the bottom of my heart. We need more people like you. Let's do it guys. See how many you can encourage and make them decide to go to Thailand - for the family holiday destination. (not for the night life scene.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted December 19, 2002 Report Share Posted December 19, 2002 Says shygye: The scale of corruption in Thailand is so much larger than in western countries. The fundamental difference is that the Thais accept corruption as normal. I would disagree with your statement as written. I would tend to agree with the statement that: the scale of corruption is wider or more widespread than in Western countries but it is in no way larger. Basically, the barriers of entry for corruption in Thailand are lower so that the least significant person can still participate if he can scrounge up enough baht. Whereas in the West corruption is a high stakes game played by the wealthy, politically deft, or socially powerful. Multi-billion dollar industries in the West have benefited as a result of corrupt practices, behaviors, ethics, direct or indirect bribery and political manuverings. The financial rewards, gains and risks associated with corruption in LOS are miniscule compared to the West. Corruption may be normalized in daily Thai life because Thais don't fool themselves into believing that it doesn't exist and they in a way allow equal opportunity corruption so to speak. We in the West pretend we are outraged and betrayed when we see our political leaders, corporations and wealthy citizens exposed for their corrupt ways. So we pass a couple of laws, make someone apologize, impose some fines, send a few people to prison to make the general populace feel warm and cozy about their system of government not tolerating corruption. They can be proud in the fact that their country is a shining symbol and standard bearer for a corrupt free world! So I say that it is a fallacy to say that Thailand is more corrupt than the West, rather it is more openly corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted December 19, 2002 Report Share Posted December 19, 2002 [color:"green"] So I say that it is a fallacy to say that Thailand is more corrupt than the West, rather it is more openly corrupt. [/color] You are just plain wrong! The richest men in Thailand were once in the military or police force, where they extracted huge sums of money via corruption. Look at the rankings of nations with respect to corruption. The US is not the least corrupt (Finland) but Thailand is far down the list. The corrupt in Thailand are revered not punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted December 19, 2002 Report Share Posted December 19, 2002 " So I say that it is a fallacy to say that Thailand is more corrupt than the West, rather it is more openly corrupt. You are just plain wrong! The richest men in Thailand were once in the military or police force, where they extracted huge sums of money via corruption. Look at the rankings of nations with respect to corruption. The US is not the least corrupt (Finland) but Thailand is far down the list." Corruption has a lot to do with poverty in a country, although there are exceptions. So of course Thailand is more corrupt than most countries in the west. Moral is easier to have when you can aford it, and money means more when you don't have it. Corruption is not exclusivly an elite problem. I have been in countries more corrupt than Thailand, and I would say they are poorer. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted December 19, 2002 Report Share Posted December 19, 2002 Says shygye: [color:"green"] So I say that it is a fallacy to say that Thailand is more corrupt than the West, rather it is more openly corrupt. [/color] You are just plain wrong! The richest men in Thailand were once in the military or police force, where they extracted huge sums of money via corruption. Look at the rankings of nations with respect to corruption. The US is not the least corrupt (Finland) but Thailand is far down the list. The corrupt in Thailand are revered not punished. You my friend are only looking at one aspect of corruption which is very easy to spot and identify. The stereotypical banana republic general who deals in narcotics and arms smuggling. There are many other more subtle forms of it. The best do it by manipulation of laws, politicians or financials. I know it currently may sound like a cliche but you only have to look at the Enron debacle as an obvious example of modern day corruption. Enron at it's peak was worth around US 75billion. You tell me who benefits more and makes out like a bandit from corrupt practices? A police captain who pockets a couple of hundred grand a year in graft or a business exec that cooks the books and pockets US 500million? As far as your surveys are concerned my question is who makes the categories and designs the measures of what constitutes corruption in a country or society? I don't believe that I am plain wrong, I may be a little off or skewed in my rationale but I don't think that I am as naive about the depth of corruption in the West as you appear to be. Here is food for thought did you ever think about how career politicians who are paid civil servant salaries retire wealthy or recieve cushy private sector jobs when they leave politics? I will give you a hint of one method. There is a huge lobbyist industry in Washington D.C. that thrives on legal political corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted December 19, 2002 Report Share Posted December 19, 2002 [color:"green"] There are many other more subtle forms of it. The best do it by manipulation of laws, politicians or financials. [/color] The Thais do that also and to a greater degree. Just look at the new airport contracts. Just look at the government compost scam. Just look at the government dairy scam. And the list goes on and on and on. [color:"green"] I know it currently may sound like a cliche but you only have to look at the Enron debacle as an obvious example of modern day corruption. [/color] Are you forgetting the collapse of the baht in 1997? The rich Thais cashed out of the baht before the Bank of Thailand floated the currency. Plus all the sweetheart loans banks doled out to MPs and their family businesses. [color:"green"] Here is food for thought did you ever think about how career politicians who are paid civil servant salaries retire wealthy or recieve cushy private sector jobs when they leave politics? [/color] A lot of them were rich (business owners, lawyers) before being elected. But they are paid higher than civil servants ($160000) and their separate pension plan is much better. [color:"green"] There is a huge lobbyist industry in Washington D.C. that thrives on legal political corruption. [/color] That is not corruption. Many groups lobby congress as is their right to petition government. Farmers lobby congress. Trial lawyers lobby congress. The elderly lobby congress. The disabled lobby congress. Environmentalists lobby congress. Teachers lobby congress. Aids activists lobby congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted December 19, 2002 Report Share Posted December 19, 2002 Interesting discussion on corruption. IMO opinion its pretty easy to find out the level of corruption is a society. Generally, people get the politicians they deserve. If the level of curruption is high when it comes to civil servants like custom officers, cops etc. its bound to be high on the top level. Corruption is not only an elite problem, its pretty much reflected through all of society. So yes, Thailand is certainly worse than the US but better off than many other countries. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falang Posted December 20, 2002 Report Share Posted December 20, 2002 [color:"blue"] would disagree with your statement as written. I would tend to agree with the statement that: the scale of corruption is wider or more widespread than in Western countries but it is in no way larger. [/color] You are so right about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2002 Report Share Posted December 20, 2002 "If you ask a guy in a gogo, where would he like to be at that very moment, he'll tell you "Here! Are you kidding". try to get the same answer from the girl he's BFining. Not saying you are wrong, but the problem of prostitution, if any, has nothing to do with mutual consent. IMO" So one guy is ordering a fine dish in the restaurant and this exactly where he wants to be.The waiter would rather be walking around town with his girlfriend.That's a reason good enough to claim there's no mutual consent in this particualr relationship??That one option is not the best you can think of doesn't mean you don't consent to it. Dangerous allusion you're doing P127.Most prostitutes are willing to work,alhough they may dream of something better(but than,with some I kindda doubt it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lazyphil Posted December 20, 2002 Report Share Posted December 20, 2002 <<Your answer shows disagreement, could you explain why?>> Just joking about your long 'Why' thread, nothing more ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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