Crash999 Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 Says samak: sanukboot, you are right. learning to read thai script is the only way to achieve correct pronounciation and tones! I disagree. It doesn't make sense that learning to read Thai script would make anyone a better speaker. One still needs to know how to pronounce all of the tones- it's no easier to learn to pronounce the tones after having learned to read Thai script. As long as the transliterated tone marks are correct then there's no reason why anyone couldn't pronounce the word properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markle Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 "As long as the transliterated tone marks are correct then there's no reason why anyone couldn't pronounce the word properly." Which sounds good in theory but in practice people still tend to associate English (or German etc) with Roman script so their pronunciation is affected by that, even though the word is Thai. Thai script learnt properly with correct pronunciation tends to eliminate this problem. Roman script teansliteration is really for people who have no intention of learning Thai beyond phrasebook level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 Says Pom_Jao_Choo: I would be interested to see such a "Tone Rules Chart", what is your source for this chart ? Thx http://www.learningthai.com/tone_rules.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash999 Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 Says markle: Which sounds good in theory but in practice people still tend to associate English (or German etc) with Roman script so their pronunciation is affected by that, even though the word is Thai. Thai script learnt properly with correct pronunciation tends to eliminate this problem. As long as the rules for the transliteration are standardized and the student is willing to learn those rules, then there's no reason why he/she can't pronounce words correctly. Otherwise learners of Chinese, for example, would have a very hard time as there is no phoenetic Chinese alphabet so they must use transliteration systems. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 Otherwise learners of Chinese, for example, would have a very hard time as there is no phoenetic Chinese alphabet so they must use transliteration systems. Asked a Chinese friend about this one day. Say, "so how do you learn to say a word you have never seen?" Apparently there are tonal markers markers built into the system. He started to try to explain it once but I was totally lost within seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 Says LaoHuLi: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Otherwise learners of Chinese, for example, would have a very hard time as there is no phoenetic Chinese alphabet so they must use transliteration systems. Asked a Chinese friend about this one day. Say, "so how do you learn to say a word you have never seen?" Apparently there are tonal markers markers built into the system. He started to try to explain it once but I was totally lost within seconds. There are no tonal markers built into Chinese characters/signs but, even a single sign can be a combination of several easier signs. So you can have a clue what the meaning is. I'm not sure about Chinese but in Japanese (and they use several thousand Chinese signs as well) you can count the number of strokes of one sign. Let's say a sign has 25 strokes and you don't know it, you can refer to a dictionary under 'number of strokes' i.e. 25 you can find what you are looking for. Not the easiest but a common way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markle Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 "As long as the rules for the transliteration are standardized and the student is willing to learn those rules, then there's no reason why he/she can't pronounce words correctly." There is a system like this - it's called Thai script. Using the chinese example is disingenous, Thai is an alphabet like Roman script. Chinese is a system od pictograms one pictogram for each word. I'm not necessarily disagreeing that a transliteration system has a place. Just that it is an unnecessary detour in learning Thai, or has very short-term uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 Sanukboot, You definitely shoudn't bother learning to read/write thai to start with. One real issue with westerners, like myself, is getting used to the tones in the language. For Chinese or Vietnamese etc this won't be such a problem obviously. It will take a while to get your ears tuned in to this. (I recommend the Linguaphone books and CD or tapes - expensive but very good. Lots of practice at the tones and some of the more 'odd' vowels and consonants. You can use these in advance and after your visit to get used to hearing the language. It also has a nice small book on learning the writing system.) I am learning at AUA - they use a peculiar system http://www.algworld.com/approach.htm also hear good things about Unity language school. If you can't hear the difference between the tones, there is no way you will be able to speak them out loud properly. Since the tone is part and parcel of the language and each and every word, trying to write or read it without being able to hear or say it would be hideously difficult. Good luck anyway coops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samak Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 i just would like to add that the tones in thai and chinese (mandarin) are completely different. so it's also for a chinese not so easy to get the thai tones right and vice versa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azmit Posted February 16, 2003 Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 [color:"blue"] I would be interested to see such a "Tone Rules Chart" [/color] Sorry for the late answer. The chart is from "Theach yourself Thai" and is quite handy (I hope I get the formatting right) : _Consonant______Live_____________Dead Syllable________ ___Class_______Syllable_____Short Vowel____Long Vowel__ LOW CLASS___MID TONE ____HIGH TONE___FALLING TONE MID CLASS____MID TONE____LOW TONE_____LOW TONE__ HIGH CLASS__RISING TONE___LOW TONE____LOW TONE__ And then you'll need another chart for the tone modifiers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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