The condo gang

[JJsushi]

rompandadam said:

 

Actually I am saying just that. There is a huge and redoubtable tradition of free education for example see websites on summerhill, dartington hall, sands school. ..and these are just a few I know about.

Yes I do draw the line in the story slightly shamefacedly I think but there are always limits to tolerance beyond didactic questions I suppose

 

 

Are you adopting the "free education" model?

 

Even those "free education" schools or institutions of learning are structured to some degree. Children don't simply create their education. They are provided a framework(read structure) into which they pursue their interests. They still have requirements and rules to follow within these free education institutions that direct them to study and pursue their education. The environment in itself is educational in nature and provides all of the tools to pursue education. These schools are not filled with video game consoles and soccer balls. They are filled with books, teachers, classrooms, scientific equipment, art suppplies, etc.

 

Are you following the same model for your own child? Are you providing the stimulus of education on a daily basis? Hard to judge by your post if this is the case as you really don't tell us.

 

Bottom line is that children do need a framework and environment in which to learn. They do need rules.

 

 

 

up to him.....does hard work have any particular value per se?

also rights are not earned surely ..they are our birthright

 

Human rights and individual freedoms are earned, taken away, given away, protected and protected. Birthrights are a fallacy not a fact because they are given or allowed by a society.

[USVirgin]

Dodge is Bangkok right?

I dont understand about the ghetto?

isnt teaching him what I actually DO?

a bit mystified by your post

 

My point was simple, but my post wasn't clear at all, sorry.

All I'm saying is that the kid's enviroment is important, and if the evironment outside your apartment is not supportive to 'getting ahead' it can undermine your best teaching efforts.

 

Two things, specfically. The day to day actions of and interactions between the parents (I can't comment obviously), and secondly his mates. Are they motivated or will they drag him down?

 

Lastly, I don't think you mentioned what your expectations for Kit are. Will you be moving him to farangland in the future to attend school there, or some international school abroad, or will he integrate into the Thai system at some point? I won't comment on education (something I know nothing about), but here again, who he's around will make whatever transition (if there is one) smoother.

 

The paragraph from your intial post that concerned me is the one below. I don't mean to pass judgement on my beloved bargirls (as I have never lived with them - they could be wonderful parents) but I wonder if Kit would not be around more positive influences in a more 'mainstream' environment.

 

Reel back, first to say we live in a condo in a (relatively) poor part of town with few falang and many bargirls.. (several of my friends from midnite bar live on my soi)...so Kit's friends are the soi kids who use our condo as their social centre...as I said all this was OK until 2 weeks ago.....

[..]

All I can say in general is that you seem to be under the impression that you and your child are equals. That is very wrong. You are the boss. You need to be sure that your child understands that at all times. Children need leadership and guidance, not another brother/friend. Sometimes that means being the bad guy and making the child do something that is not what they want but is for their own good. And if they do things that are against the rules, they need to be punished.

 

Simply put: sure you can (and should) explain why what you want is the right/good thing, but you HAVE to enforce the correct decision. And you HAVE to punish the bad ones. And a punishment is no good if the child does not fear it.

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

Regards,

SD

 

PS: I am the father of 14 & 16 year old daughters...

[MrX]

Theres lots to think about in US and Suadum's posts.....did i mention i am a teacher by profession...but maybe that is not important.....we are planning to send him to a free boarding school down the line in the uk where the kids make all the rules even hiring and firing of teachers....obviously lessons are not compulsory...etc

 

but maybe this is drifting off topic.....obviously school's main function is to indoctrinate and brainwash which are processes I guess nobody can completely avoid, just that i am usurping some of society's characteristic monopoly.....

 

Suadum, I have the impression we are poles apart on the making of a happy individual and a good citizen and that dispute is something I welcome ..what is more you may well be actually right though I suspect our kids turn out in spite of rather than because of us

 

US....I count bar girls among my good friends so no problems living among them..dony knw about getting ahead..though I suppose by many criteria I am a successful individual i have felt getting ahead has had nothing to do with it.....a life is a combination of external circumstances and your own creativity projected onto them dont you think?..the important thing is to keep the creative spirit crystal IMHO...rambling now..signing off at the train station just about to visa run to laos....i like this dialogue...thanks to you

[gummigut]

We have differing views and that's cool.

 

But saying, "obviously school's main function is to indoctrinate and brainwash" is a bit much. Are we talking about arab schools in the gaza strip or upper middle class in New England?

 

Luckily I attended decent schools and we weren't indoctrinated or brainwashed but were taught to ask "why?" and statements like that are insulting to teachers who really do an excellent job.

 

<<burp>>

[..]

"Suadum, I have the impression we are poles apart on the making of a happy individual and a good citizen and that dispute is something I welcome ..what is more you may well be actually right though I suspect our kids turn out in spite of rather than because of us"

 

LOL I expect you are prolly about 80% correct although I am amazed that normal middle class kids in the States are doing things that we as "ghetto kids" would never have even thought of in the 70's. IMHO, I attribute it to the lack of strong role models (male & female) and the lack of discipline I see whenever I go back there. Sorry, time outs in the corner and negotiating with a child is not discipline in my book. My parents (who were 45 & 35 when I was born; I was their first and only) were very strict and would think nothing of scolding me, grounding me or backhanding me if I was out of line. But they were very good role models and taught me well. I naturally hated them from about ages 15-21, but thought the world of them when I got into the real world after Uni. Wifey has the same basic story. After Uni, our parents did treat us as more-or-less equals. But never before then.

 

Now those of you who know me know that I have been having trouble with a rebellious #2 daughter. I tried many forms of punishment, from screaming, to being a nice guy, to groundings, to cutting allowance (she gets B1200/week -- ya, a spoilt expat brat). But the problem was that she would weigh the punishment versus the sanuk factor. I.e., if doing X was worth "10 sanuk points" to her and the two week grounding that resulted from doing that was only worth "8 mai sanuk points," then guess what she did. I finally had to get drastic and make good on the threats to send her to her Uncle. Uncle is a very strict Chinese guy with grown kids and lives in a decidedly unglam shop house in Yaoworwat. We also cut off her allowance completely. She went there from her nicy-nice Thonglor expat private enclave and her salary of more than most Thais get. And Uncle had the gall (LOL) to make her work in his shop to get any spending money at all! Well, it is amazing the change in her attitude after a month of this. We are willing to give it another try back at our place (tonight's the first night back), but she knows that if she screws up again, it is back to Uncle's gulag!

 

But despite the above, our (err, our parents) methods produced generally happy, well adjusted, kids until six months ago! But we look to be on track again <knocking on wood>.

 

Good luck. You have some long periods of assessment and perhaps a bit of a bumpy road ahead, but you'll make it.

 

Cheers,

SD

[Redbaron]

Suadum,

Good result on #2 kid - well done.

 

No comment on the other issues raised in this thread, my family are a bunch of freaks.

[Fatbastard]

There is some good info on the relies. Sorry is this a bit off track, but I have recently come to the conclusion that my wife will NEVER discipline our child. In the context of extended family life this probably works because Grand mother take this task, but no family here in BKK. So of couse it becomes my task and then I become the "Bad Papa" which I get called after a smacked Bum. We have sat down to disuss and we both agree that discipline should be shared and it is wrong for Mum to comfort her after I have disciplined the child, but wasting my breath.

Anyone else have them same problem?

[limbo]

Hi Fatbastard,

 

I'm not sure if I'm having that problem, it's about to develop now and the first test was passed very well by my wife, I'll have to wait a few more months to see if she follows up on this.

 

I do see however that I'm a bit more 'disclipined' with the child than my wife and her relatives. Definately some interesteing times ahead.

[MrX]

gummigut wrote:

" saying, "obviously school's main function is to indoctrinate and brainwash" is a bit much. Are we talking about arab schools in the gaza strip or upper middle class in New England?

 

Luckily I attended decent schools and we weren't indoctrinated or brainwashed but were taught to ask "why?" and statements like that are insulting to teachers who really do an excellent job"

 

sorry if I seem to be (or am) spouting rampant dogma in the public domain...let me explain.... Most sociology opines that school is one of the most important socialization agencies and I suppose socialization is just a polite term for indoctrination.

 

Your example about the arab schools compared with new england schools seems particularly salient...I suppose you are american and dont you think that it is normal to think one's own culture (school) doesnt indoctrinate while the others do?...or in otherr terms I bet asking 'why' is itself just an example of propaganda of the liberal/enlightenment world view......Marcuse's notion of repressive tolerance comes to mind or Chompsky's manufacturing consent ..but oh dear yet again I am off topic.....