Have you ever had an HIV test ???

[check_bin_krap]

Following that logic, it means that the HIV test is not safe.

 

Board members who have been tested negative, do the test again. You might be positive! (Huge panic)

[thalenoi]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Quoting Tamachat:

 

Thalenoi, it is hardly surprising that someone who takes heroin would test Hiv positive. Recreational drug use is known to produce false positives on the Hiv tests, and on top of that as an addict she probably had lots of other infections that also cause false positives. By having this person tested, you have helped to destroy any hope she may have for the future, and that in itself can cause a person to die, due to the documented immune-suppressive effects of intense psychological stress, depression and Hiv-induced social isolation. Congratulations. But hey, you got yours, right? Who cares about the whore?

 

Why didn?t you just use a condom? Your odds would have been astronomical to catch Hiv from her with a condom.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Thatmachat,

 

Nice reply for a promotor of the MYTH.....

 

I feel no obligation towards you to justify my life, but just to help you understand what life is all about:

 

I brought her to my country to get her out of the "milieu"

She wanted to work, and in order to obtain a work permit she needed a medical certificate stating she did not have infectuous diseases. That's where it became obvious she has sif stage 2 and HIV pos.

 

In fact I took her to visit my house doctor on day one.

Do you know what is like when you stop taking heroine on a wednesday? The next 5 days are a nightmare. She did dump all the meds however. That stupid doctor should have taken a blood test that day, or do you disagree??? We could have reacted quicker in regard with her "unknown" illnesses.

 

She lived with me for ther next 18 months.

First I had her hospitalised for sifilis treatement

The we had numerous follow ups on her immunity system which was degrating month by month.

Who paid the bills ya think?

 

She did not want to continue to be a burden for me and returned living with her parents from which se separated many years before.

 

We kept in touch for an other year, until one day she disappeared. She gave me one last phone call from a small mountain village, not to be seen ever again by anyone.

 

Thamachat, I am starting to have this feeling of disgust towards you.

[Redbaron]

Top post Fly. All the best to your loved ones. Keep up the good work.

[Guest]

thanks

 

i only wonder though where thammachat is now...

[thamachat]

Dear FlyonzeWall,

 

I never said there was a ?conspiracy.? Those are your words.

 

You present a lot of anecdotal information. Can you show me a controlled study that shows that Hiv positive people who take antiretrovirals live longer than those who don?t? As far as I?m aware no such studies exist.

 

I am truly sorry to hear about your friends and family members, but do you have evidence that they really suffered from Hiv, and not from one of the 70 + conditions that can produce a false positive?

 

They were almost certainly tested without a confirmatory Western Blot, and this means there is a significant chance that their positives are/were false. (There?s also a significant chance of false positives WITH the WB, but the chance is greater without)

 

If we?re going to admit anecdotes, I can tell you about my own contacts with people who know many people in Chiang Rai with Aids. I asked them to find out if the people who died were taking the antiretrovirals. They made some inquiries, and in every case the answer was yes, the people they know who died were taking the Aids medicines.

 

One of the family members of a deceased Aids patient told my friend that apparently, ?the doctors gave him something to make him die faster, because as soon as he started the medicine, he started getting worse and died very quickly.?

 

I will also admit into evidence my conversation with a bargirl who told me about her friend who got a positive test, then insisted to the doctor that he run another one, and it came out negative. (very common)

 

You don?t know where I get my ?bullshit? about inadequate testing in Thailand? Well, if you read my article, you would see that I got that information from some of the top Aids specialists in the country. A version of my article was published in The Nation. Do you think the Nation publishes articles without fact-checking them? If I am wrong, why has (to my knowledge) no medical authority?CDC, WHO, MOPH?written to The Nation to demand that they print a retraction?

 

In fact, several Aids industry insiders have communicated with me privately and confirmed that what I wrote about Hiv testing in Thailand was correct. If you have evidence that I am wrong, present it.

 

Also check this out, from a 2003 study, ?HIV Prevalence and Risks Among Injection and Noninjection Drug Users in Northern Thailand: Need for Comprehensive HIV Prevention Programs?:

?Participants provided a blood specimen that was tested for HIV antibody by ELISA ? Reactive ELISA specimens were tested with the gel-particle agglutination (GPA) test ?Specimens testing positive in both antibody tests were considered HIV-positive. GPA-nonreactive specimens were confirmed by Western blot analysis.?

 

This is precisely what I said the Thai testing protocol was: if both screening tests are positive, you don?t do the WB. You only do it if there?s discordance between the two screening tests. What makes this so shocking is that this was done in a study that was conducted with Johns Hopkins University researchers and published in the Journal Aids. Usually in studies they do a higher standard of testing, but these bozos did the same low standard of testing that is done to ordinary Thai people in clinics. Again suggesting that the Aids establishment considers Thais second class citizens and it?s okay to give them tests that are more likely to ring false positive than the ones given to westerners.

 

You might want to reconsider your statement that your friends ?get tested very well? in Thailand. In reality they get shafted very well.

 

The girl you know who is blind?this can be a side effect of Aids drugs. Some people do survive with low-dose ARVs for as long as 7 years but you don?t know how long she might survive if she just lived a healthy lifestyle, had good nutrition, and didn?t take ARVs. That?s what controlled studies are supposed to find out, and that?s why we need those and not anecdotes.

 

Since you say that there are many Hiv positive people taking ARVs in your village, there should be some medical data as to how long they are surviving with the medicines. Is there? Or are we forced to accept your anecdotes that they get better? Do you have research that shows that the ones who took ARVs survived longer from seroconversion than the ones who didn?t take it? Research that is controlled for confounding variables? Or only anecdotal observations?

 

All of them were most likely tested without a confirmatory test, and may not even really be Hiv positive, but may be suffering from other treatable conditions that are not being treated.

 

Surely with all the Aids NGOs in Thailand, they must have conducted a study on this!

 

If you really researched those 60 or so people, I suspect you would find other factors that caused false positives, and also caused their diseases, because such factors are common in Thailand. I urge you to visit the links that I have provided, and hear the other side of the story, which comes from hundreds of fully qualified doctors and scientists. If you do so, maybe you will get mad at the Aids establishment for causing your relatives? deaths, and not me.

 

You said that ?the ones I know who take antiretroviral drugs do get better. The ones who don't, waste away and die soon.? Is this observation made on a statistically significant group of people? How many people are you talking about? Do you know for a fact who in the village is Hiv positive and who isn?t? Do you know that they don?t have other factors that have been shown to cause wasting, such as hard drug use, hunger and the psychological turmoil of being diagnosed ?Hiv positive? and being treated like an untouchable leper by everyone they know?

 

I am truly sorry for your uncle. It could well have been some of the other diseases he had that caused him to test Hiv positive. His low T-cells could have been caused by the physical stress of his meningitis condition. Antiretrovirals often have an antibiotic effect and can temporarily clear up a lot of opportunistic infections, and have a powerful placebo effect due to all the hype about their miraculous powers, but tell us a few years from now how your uncle is doing. Not what the lab tests say about his viral load and T-cell count, but how he is actually feeling. The side effects of chemotherapy eventually take their toll.

 

If you have evidence that drug companies are making death threats to the generic manufacturers, why do you accept that such thugs are telling you the truth about their ?wonder drugs??

 

Even the Aids establishment admit that the drugs have severe side effects that can be life threatening. I?m not making this stuff up. Liver failure is now one of the most common, if not the most common, causes of death in people with Aids, and that?s a drug side effect.

 

Was your friend who tested positive tested in Thailand? If so, find out if he was given a Western Blot, and if he wasn?t, demand that he be given one. He may not really be positive.

 

Finally, I?m not interested in childish ?challenges? to get myself injected with tainted blood, or anything of the sort. Blood transfusions are immune suppressive and dangerous, with or without Hiv present, because of the foreign proteins in blood.

 

As for Josh Ingu, who finds your post ?brilliant,? I can only comment that this says a lot about the medical profession (which Josh is apparently a part of), that they are willing to accept someone?s anecdotes as acceptable, even ?brilliant? hard evidence that Hiv causes Aids and ARVs make people live longer, but cannot show me a controlled study that demonstrates this.

 

This is a man (Josh Ingu) who accuses me of being a ?liar,? yet has not shown any instance where I have lied. He accused Dr. Richards, whose paper I referred to, of ?typical Virusmyth distortion and absolute fabrication.? He ?proved? this by producing a paper that wasn?t even referenced in Dr. Richards? article, and wasn?t even on the same subject, and claiming that Dr. Richards distorted it. Obviously, he undertook to critique Dr. Richards article without even reading it! It?s good that we have such rigorous medical academicians amongst us here on the board.

 

Josh, if you find Fly?s post ?brilliant,? does that mean you also agree with him that big pharmaceutical companies make death threats to generic drug makers? Sounds like a ?conspiracy theory? to me.

 

If Fly?s post is brilliant, does this mean that I am lying about the lack of routine Western Blot use in the Thailand Hiv testing protocol? If so, expose me, here?s your big chance, fella!

 

Josh also wrote:

 

>I *wish* I had the time to deal with the >posts appropriately, >but the sad truth is, I >don't. Feel guilty about it, but frankly I >have work that is more pressing.

 

Josh Ingu has made 648 posts to this board, most recently on such topics as ?Help with nude Thai girl friend,? ?Are ex-whoremongers hypocrites?" And ?Can whoremongers spell?? Yes, he?s too busy with ?pressing work? to respond when I expose his gross errors on a critically important life or death subject!

 

But I will relent a bit. Josh is in over his head, and has to ?save face? any way that he can. Such face-saving by medical science has caused and is causing many thousands of people to be wrongly diagnosed and to suffer and die.

 

In answer to some other questions, my interest in posting to this board is that I want to get through to some of you, the ones who can think for yourselves, in the hope that you will read the alternative opinions on Aids and spread the word to Thai girls (who I am very fond of) that there is reason to doubt what they have been told about Hiv, and that there is a large body of qualified medical opinion that disagrees with the prevailing theory. In this way, I hope to prevent suicides and give Thai girls hope for the future?hope that the Aids industry takes away from them with the Hiv+ voodoo hex and the false hope that ARVs are their salvation.

 

Everyone has a right to this information. To withhold it from people is unethical.

[thamachat]

Thailenoi,

 

I apologize for accusing you. I didn?t know that she was required to take the test to get a work permit. If I had known that, I would have expressed anger at governments which make such requirements, not at you.

 

I remain angry at sanukers who give girls rapid tests before they shag them?girls who they don?t give a shit about?and whose lives subsequently get ruined due to these inaccurate, never-validated tests. Though of course the anger is also directed to the Aids Science establishment that falsely tells people that the tests are accurate.

[Guest lazyphil]

Please everyone, be nice, so far thamachat has been civil.

 

lp modding in wrong forum!

[thamachat]

check_bin_krap said:

I thought a HIV test was pretty clear, I did not know that there is evaluation on "who it is"?

 

Explain please? As far as I know, its a straight forward medical test. I don't believe you over the medicals in my country, I think you are full of SHIT !!!

 

Dear Check Bin Krap,

 

I believe that risk group information is routinely taken when a test is done in many countries. Check these out, for an example:

 

http://www.show.scot.nhs.uk/scieh/infectious/aidshiv/Instructions.pdf

 

http://www.gribbles.com.au/HIVTesting.htm

 

Or this from National Aids Control Organization, India:

?Each specimen must be accompanied with a test request form which should include age and sex of the patient, name of the physician requesting the investigation, RISK GROUP of the patient, reason for the investigation in addition to the information given on the label.?

 

I don?t know if the same is true in Thailand. Josh, do they do this in the US?

 

Part of the reason for this is that if the person being tested is in a risk group, they treat the blood sample like a hazardous material and are extra careful with it. It?s easy to see how this could tip the scales toward positive in the case of ambiguous results.

 

I call upon all posters to respond with logic and reasoning and not with drunken accusations of being ?FULL OF SHIT? or shite, or bullshit, or bullshite, or whatever.

[Guest]

i wishh you would make your posts a bit shorter, it's a bit difficult to answer all your semitruths and outright misinformation properly.

 

as to "anectdotal" evidence - i am in the lucky position not to be a medical professional, nor am i a scientist, so that it is perfectly alright when my personal anecdotal evidence is completely confirmed by every single medical professional dealing with AIDS i know personally.

 

 

 

>>>Do you think the Nation publishes articles without fact-checking them? <<<

 

yes, they do that regularly. every media outlet does that, not just some local newspaper of a developing nation.

 

 

 

 

>>>If I am wrong, why has (to my knowledge) no medical authority—CDC, WHO, MOPH—written to The Nation to demand that they print a retraction?<<<

 

why should they? do you think those organisations have nothing better to do than demanding retractions from newspapers who published one or the other article?

 

 

 

>>>>If we’re going to admit anecdotes, I can tell you about my own contacts with people who know many people in Chiang Rai with Aids. I asked them to find out if the people who died were taking the antiretrovirals. They made some inquiries, and in every case the answer was yes, the people they know who died were taking the Aids medicines.

 

One of the family members of a deceased Aids patient told my friend that apparently, “the doctors gave him something to make him die faster, because as soon as he started the medicine, he started getting worse and died very quickly.”<<<

 

 

 

that i would not even call an anecdote, that's classified as a "rumour". that was what a friend of a friend of a friend told you. appearantly. have you ever verified those anecdotes personally? or was it just enough that a friend of a friend of a friend confirmed you opinion? and how comes that you conclude that "a pill" was in fact an antiretroviral?

 

 

 

 

>>>The girl you know who is blind—this can be a side effect of Aids drugs.<<<

 

you assume too much. she got blind before she took antiretrovirals. at that point she was 30 kilos and dying. since she started taking antiretrovirals she improved tremendously and lives a normal live now without any secondary infections. but antiretrovirals are not known to restore vision, neither does any other medicine if the nerve is too damaged.

 

 

>>>All of them were most likely tested without a confirmatory test, and may not even really be Hiv positive, but may be suffering from other treatable conditions that are not being treated.<<<

 

actually, no. they were tested several times. first in the healthstation, and then several other tests where the blood is sent to the next provincial hospitals with far better labfacilities.

 

 

 

 

>>>If you have evidence that drug companies are making death threats to the generic manufacturers, why do you accept that such thugs are telling you the truth about their “wonder drugs?”<<<

 

typical conspiracy theory crap. just because someone might be a "thug" why should he be a liar as well. FYI - the problems between generic manufacturers and the pharmagiants are not about the verification of antiretrovirals, but about patentrights and money. both sides are well aware that the antiretrovirals do work. sufficient studies and research has been done on that.

 

 

 

>>>Even the Aids establishment admit that the drugs have severe side effects that can be life threatening.<<<

 

what a bullshit statement. most drugs, if you care to read the infosheet, have sideeffects, which can be often lifethreatening. nothing new about that.

and as to antiretrovirals - there are lots of them around. some do cause more sideeffects, some less. some do cause sideeffects only in some people. for that reason (and others, such as built up of resistence) antiretrovirals are strictly controlled by hospitals and healthstations here in thailand. you won't get them in pharmacies.

also, combinations are given, again, under strict supervision of trained doctors, and they are changed when sideeffects show up. read the infosheet for GPO vir for example - there are some more differentiated infos on sideeffects than your blanket statement.

 

 

 

 

>>>Finally, I’m not interested in childish “challenges” to get myself injected with tainted blood, or anything of the sort. Blood transfusions are immune suppressive and dangerous, with or without Hiv present, because of the foreign proteins in blood.<<<

 

oh yes. of course. did i expect anything else...

 

 

 

 

basically, i leave it to josh to refute your more medical statements, i am not in the habit to cut and paste stuff i have not the qualifications to verify.

 

and as your request to visit your websites there. sorry, when i want to know something i go directly to people who deal with AIDS in a medical or in research capacity. it's just funny, that under all the experts i have personally met - i have never met anyone who shares the opinions of your "top Aids specialists in the country". and the people i have personally conversed with include the director and staff of MSF belgium (the organisation responsible for training of thai hospital staff all over the country, and direct care of AIDS patients as well), or dr. kraisintu (the developer of GPO vir).

[lembeh]

 

 

Dude

more misrepresentation, distortion and fabrication? Sigh.

 

>Josh Ingu has made 648 posts to this board, most recently on such topics as ?Help with nude Thai girl friend,? ?Are ex-whoremongers hypocrites?" And ?Can whoremongers spell?? Yes, he?s too busy with ?pressing work? to respond when I expose his gross errors on a critically important life or death subject!

 

Thats in four years! A whopping total of 16 per month, or an average of one every two days. Give me a break.

 

 

 

>that this says a lot about the medical profession (which Josh is apparently a part of)

 

Again. I have said *repeatedly* I am *not* part of the medical "establishment".

 

>Josh is in over his head,

 

No. He's just bored of talking to the brick wall that is thamachat. I have shown you are talking nonsense (repeatedly) on the scientific side. Fly has shown you are talking nonsense on the social/humanitarian side.

-j-