Have you ever had an HIV test ???

[khwaimaisabai]

Hi josh,

Just to offer my two cents worth - and I know something about this from a professional (not medical) perspective.

I think a lot of the "virus myth" stuff is playing with words. It is true that HIV does not cause AIDS in the same way that it's true that jumping off a 17th storey hotel balcony in Pattaya does not kill anyone. In that case, death is caused by hitting the ground very hard a few seconds later.

The effect of HIV is to weaken the body's defences against the many infections that are all around us. It is these diseases of various kinds that disable and kill people with HIV. The drugs now available do not get rid of the virus but they do slow down its effects so that infected people can have a longer life before their defence system finally gives up.

To me, it is simply not credible that there is some sort of international cover up conspiracy about this with the sole objective of making profits for the drug companies.

Khwai

[Guest]

exactly.

 

and the only "conspiracy" the big pharmagiants are involved is to keep lobbying governments (with fair and unfair methods) so they can optimise profits of medicine which is already proven to work.

 

so, arguments about generic maunufacturers vs. pharmagiants are perfectly legitimate, but the old crap about the virusmyth reality has diproved already.

 

why is it that virus myth people always cite their "top experts" in the field of AIDS while if you are forced to go out an speak with real experts who deal every day with research and care of AIDS patients, none, i repeat: NONE, give any importance whatsoever to the virusmyth.

but everybody of them has some opinion or the other on the conflict about pharmagiants vs generic manufacturers (and most people in the care of patients have not a very high opinion about pharmagiants ).

[lembeh]

Hi Kwaimaisabai

 

>Hi josh,

>Just to offer my two cents worth

 

 

Could I have five dollars worth please! Thanks for your post.

-j-

[thamachat]

Flyonzewall,

 

Your rebuttal is rather hollow. If what you say is true, and the Aids medicines make people healthy and make them live longer, there should be studies that confirm this. To my knowledge, there aren?t any. I have asked repeatedly to be shown such studies, but nobody has produced them.

 

I don?t mean studies that show that the Aids drugs reduce laboratory measures like viral load and increase T-cell counts, I mean studies that compare drugged Hiv+ people with non-drugged and find longer lifespans in the drugged. That?s the only way you can make a claim that the drugs ?prolong lives.?

 

As far as I know, the Aids establishment tries to back up this claim with the results of ?viral load? tests, which are not an indicator of prolonged lifespan. And they say that, well, Aids patients live longer these days than they used to, but that proves nothing. Of course people given lower doses of poisonous medicines will live longer than those given the high doses of the early years, they are just being poisoned more slowly. Also, since the CDC changed the Aids definition in 1993 to include people with no diseases but low t-cell counts, more than half the Aids patients being diagnosed in the US are clinically healthy. It?s not surprising that healthy people would take longer to die than sick people.

 

It seems GPO-Vir is a rather low dose combo pill. I can believe you when you say the people you know are not suffering any obvious side effects. It's also rather likely that the people I was told about from Chiang Rai were taking AZT, as this was several years ago. Without doubt, AZT is more toxic than GPO-Vir. But, again, your friends may not even really be positive, in which case the medicines are unlikely to be helping them. But check out how they are doing down the road. GPO-Vir is still very toxic, and it's chemotherapy, and chemotherapy isn't Kool Aid--it has many very destructive effects in the body. When the GPO-Vir finally starts making these people sick, the doctor will say the Hiv has become resistant. In fact, it will be the toxicity of the GPO-Vir that is finally taking its toll.

 

Again, with $130 billion in US government funds spent, there is no reason not to do a clinical trial that compares people who take the drugs with those who don?t. The fact that they haven?t done such a trial, or if they have done it do not want to publicize the results, speaks volumes, especially since research trials are biased toward the drugs, which has been admitted now by several medical journal editors.

 

Unfortunately, Aids ?science? has abandoned these sound methodologies in favor of anecdotes like yours. It doesn?t matter how many doctors you?ve asked, if all they have is anecdotes, that is strong reason to doubt.

 

Again, have you confirmed that the people you know with Aids were given Western Blot tests? Were they also given a second set of tests on a second blood sample to lessen the chance of false positives? Was the Western Blot evaluated by Thai standards (2 bands=positive) or Western standards (3 or 4 bands=positive)? If they were given any WB at all, that is well beyond what the usual person tested in Thailand gets.

 

My anecdotes were the result of phone calls that a friend made to people he knew in Chiang Rai. I was present when he made the phone calls. They are not rumors, they are anecdotes as valid as yours.

 

Listen, buddy. If I were to get injected with someone?s blood, I might then test Hiv positive. That would be a disaster for me personally, not because Hiv causes Aids, but because everyone assumes it does. I would be banned from residing in many countries, and in the US and maybe some other countries it would become a felony for me to have sex with anyone without first informing them of my ?status.? Which means that it would become practically impossible for me to have sex again, ever, as most people would probably run away when being informed of such a thing.

 

There are plenty of reasons not to want to become "Hiv positive," and they have nothing to do with an allegedly deadly virus.

 

What I WOULD do, with great pleasure, is have sex with a positive girl without a condom. In fact, I would gladly fuck her silly, and eat her pussy voraciously, and kiss her, and I wouldn?t worry about it for a moment! Because I?m convinced that it is a very remote possibility to get ?Hiv? from a woman?s pussy, so remote as to not be a concern. And frankly I think it likely she just has a false positive anyway. And there is too much evidence questioning whether Hiv even really exists for me to be concerned about it.

 

Hey, if someone published wrong information about hiv testing in Thailand, I think the vast Aids PR apparatus would bombard them with denials. Two well known Aids scientists were quoted. It?s not credible to say that they would do nothing to correct the situation if they were misquoted. They didn?t do this because my information was correct, and is easily verifiable. And I have concrete evidence that they said these things.

 

You refuse to visit my links and then you say that every doctor you meet verifies your beliefs. Well I have told you where you can find doctors and Aids specialists who contradict those beliefs. You can also find there, dozens of reports from medical journals, of deaths and severe illness from the Aids drugs. If you don?t want to find out about this, you?re not going to find out about it. That says more about you than it does about ?Aids truth.?

 

You can lead a horse to water...

 

http://www.motherjones.com/arts/books/2004/09/08_100.html

[thamachat]

Fly, yes, every doctor you go to in Thailand will confirm what you believe. How could they not? It?s what they are taught in medical school, it?s what they read in the newspaper and see on TV. They?ve never even been exposed to the many arguments that dispute the Hiv theory. This is true of most doctors worldwide. The reason they are not exposed to them is censorship. Also, conformity is often legally imposed by the medical licensing boards, so that a doctor who contradicts established dogma is punished.

 

You also have the factor that, according to information I was given by someone who was previously in the pharmacy business in Thailand, Thai doctors often get kickbacks from the drug companies when they prescribe drugs. This is hardly surprising. Even the NY Times, which usually tries to cover up the extent of medical corruption, has reported that US doctors routinely get ?consulting fees? in the mail from drug companies for doing nothing other than prescribing expensive drugs.

 

Gee, do ya think it?s possible that even guys in the moph and fda might get some...er... benefit when they approve a drug?

 

What is very important, IMO, is that people be allowed to know when there is substantial disagreement on critical life and death matters. Otherwise they can?t make an informed choice.

 

At minimum, Thai people should be told that there is quite a bit of dispute on what the Hiv tests mean, and whether they are accurate. When you don?t tell them this, they become victims of the ?nocebo? effect, which is the documented fact that when you tell a person he is likely to become sick, the mind affects the body and makes him more likely to become sick, independent of the effect of any virus.

 

http://skepdic.com/nocebo.html

http://www.hippocrates.com/archive/November1999/11departments/11integrative.html

 

But this demands complex thinking, and the Aids establishment prefer simple-minded baby talk.

[thamachat]

Josh?forgive me, I?m getting old?I don?t recall your ?repeated? denial that you are part of the medical establishment. Can you show me where in the thread you said that?

 

Didn?t you say, in some other thread, that you worked in a hospital? Maybe you are an accountant there, perhaps? Fancy that, an accountant who knows about apoptosis and reads scientific papers?

 

Let?s end this debate about whether Hiv causes Aids or whether the medicine is good for you, because otherwise it will go on forever, and I don?t have the time for it. Interested observers know where they can go for more info. (I will start one new thread, just cause it's very interesting, but then I'm outta here)

 

What I don?t want to end, and what I resent being called ?nonsense? is the debate about Hiv testing in Thailand. What I wrote about it is absolutely and verifiably true. In Thailand, standards for calling a person Hiv positive are WAY lower than they are in the west. Without question, a sizable percentage of Hiv + Thai people have been wrongly diagnosed.

 

I have repeatedly asked you to present evidence that the testing situation that I have described is not true, and you haven?t done so. That?s because it is true. I suspect that you know this, but don?t want to admit that a ?Virusmyth? person can *ever* be giving accurate information about *anything.*

 

http://www.dr-rath-foundation.org.za/open_letters/open_letter_2004_04_13.htm

[thamachat]

Khwai, you would do better to read some of the vast literature on this before making your conclusions. (I realize that using empirical evidence to form opinions is old-fashioned, but there are still some scientists and doctors who do this, and they will tell you there is no evidence that Hiv kills T-cells or anything of the sort.) It?s just a theory that has never been proven and is assumed as the basis for a super-profitable drug industry that now controls medical research like a mahoot controls his elephant.

 

http://www.aras.ab.ca/articles/AIDSQuotes.htm

 

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Economics/Health/~~/dmlldz11c2EmY2k9MDE5NTE3Njg0Nw==#titledescription ::

[Guest]

>>>Your rebuttal is rather hollow. If what you say is true, and the Aids medicines make people healthy and make them live longer, there should be studies that confirm this. To my knowledge, there aren’t any. I have asked repeatedly to be shown such studies, but nobody has produced them.<<<

 

 

then i guess you have asked in the wrong places. maybe you should ask josh. i do know him personally, and therefore i am sure he can give you very educated advice.

 

 

 

>>>When the GPO-Vir finally starts making these people sick, the doctor will say the Hiv has become resistant. In fact, it will be the toxicity of the GPO-Vir that is finally taking its toll. <<<

 

no, when GPO reaches a point of resistence, which as far as i know is individually different with every patient, but generally expected to be 7 years, i believe, or when a patient does show sideeffects with one of the three ingredients (i am too lazy too look up which one of the three it is), about 20% do, then the patient is given another combination drug.

nobody disputes that the new drugs are heavy drugs, but still better than experiencing a breakdown of the immune systhem.

 

 

 

>>>and in the US and maybe some other countries it would become a felony for me to have sex with anyone without first informing them of my “status.” Which means that it would become practically impossible for me to have sex again, ever, as most people would probably run away when being informed of such a thing.<<<

 

actually, no. it only is a felony when you have unprotected sex without informing your partner first of your positive status. and, regarding "never sex again", i do know more than a few couples where one partner is positive, and they have a healthy sexlife, only difference is that the do it with protection. and lots of people do not take part in the AIDS panic, so they are rather reasonable about it.

 

 

 

 

>>>>What I WOULD do, with great pleasure, is have sex with a positive girl without a condom. In fact, I would gladly fuck her silly, and eat her pussy voraciously, and kiss her, and I wouldn’t worry about it for a moment! Because I’m convinced that it is a very remote possibility to get “Hiv” from a woman’s pussy, so remote as to not be a concern. And frankly I think it likely she just has a false positive anyway. And there is too much evidence questioning whether Hiv even really exists for me to be concerned about it.<<<

 

 

i can organise that any day. no problem whatsoever.

 

 

excuse me if i am curious, but funny though that after all the well worded posts you finally come up with a sentence in that language. is maybe your whole stand on the issue influenced by the fact that maybe the only thing you really care about in the end is that you want to justifie to yourself and others that you basically hate to use condoms? you wouldn't be the first one i have met.

[check_bin_krap]

Not you Fly, sorry, the whole screen fuck up stems from our reverend of the faith of no connection between HIV and AIDS.

[check_bin_krap]

Can't read what you are writing TC.

 

Please, put links into where they belong. I do not have a 21" screen here.