Ex GF and ethical dilemma

[BelgianBoy]

are you a fucking moron or what?

 

P127,

 

Civility please, civility !

 

Lets keep a discussion going here, not a mud-slinging flame match.

 

BB

[Guest]

>>>But Fly, whatever could or can be done to prevent him from infecting more Thai girls? Apart from people telling whatever girl he drags here the situation?<<<

 

 

isn't that obvious in this case?

you go to a *professional* lawyer to get advised which course of action to take, or, if you feel you have enough proof that he willfully infects others with AIDS, you can also go to the *professional* police.

what else?

[check_bin_krap]

And what will the lawyer and police do? Can they drag up more cases where he has done this in another country? They will be able to get some compensation for the unlucky girl, max. Its complex when he goes to another country to infect girls. Its not enough with 1 known infection or 2 to do anything with this legally.

 

Proof is hard to get here, even if he drags his 2nd *known* victim here - police can't do anything. Sure, locals have to bark and fast if that happens.

 

Privacy? F*ck it when people like him are involved.

[Guest]

>>>I know of several cases where even so called "professionals" disagree when it comes to issues concernng HIV. So what makes one professionals' opinion or theory more valid than anothers?<<<

 

 

 

doesn't the same apply to any sector?

lets take economics, your field, would you, just because economists disagree in almost any field as well, choose to instead let me, who has proven sufficiently that has has no clue whatsoever about that subject, advise you how to invest. i doubt. you would go to the economist you feel comfortable with, the one who maybe has experience in the particular field you want to invest, etc.

same applies to this case here - you shop around. lots of different experts in differing fields of AIDS, you educate yourself (but depeding, that is in a brief time only possible to a certain degree). you can ask around, such as on this board here, and then maybe you get advise.

now, what advise do you listen to?

-the advice coming from people who have proven to have some experience with the problem?

-or the ones who have no experience whatsoever in the field, but are vocal and emotional?

 

it should be obvious that you look first at the ones with some level of experience. and here in this debate what do the people who professed to have some experience with similar situations advice? almost uniliterally all said more or less the same thing: this case is a serious bastard, way to difficult to try to solve yourself, go to experts.

 

 

now, coming to what is an expert in the field of AIDS?

depends, lots of things. can be law, medicine, psychology, nursing, microbiology, etc. depending in which particular field the expert works. all these professions do have some internationally recognised standarts.

in addition to that of course practical experience is required.

that means of course one looks at the reputation of the individual, or more likely, of the organisation that individual works for.

is a fly by night NGO? i guess those should be excluded.

is it a highly reputable NGO such as what i have proposed, MSF? definately a huge expertise, in training, care etc., who can, if they cannot deal with the issue, refer you to someone equally reputable who can.

those organisations do also use a network of outreach workers. they often are HIV infected themselves, do come from the background of whatever infected person comes from, and have that way already a line of communication others have not.

 

many might not be aware of the fact that there is a vast and huge network in existence, spanning almost all levels of AIDS. AIDS in thailand is not just the temple in lopburi where all the people die. AIDS is selfhelpgroups all over the country, a very well done network of medical coverage, legal support, etc.

if you can tap into that network there are funds, employment possibilities for infected, homecare, etc.

 

if you have the possibility to tap into such a vast network, which could not only help in solving such very tricky situation, but could also under circumstances present perspectives for the girl's future?

why would you choose to circumvent such options?

how do you think you could even have the slightest possibility to achieve even remotely what such a huge pool of experience can achive?

[Guest]

check_bin_krap said:

And what will the lawyer and police do? Can they drag up more cases where he has done this in another country? They will be able to get some compensation for the unlucky girl, max. Its complex when he goes to another country to infect girls. Its not enough with 1 known infection or 2 to do anything with this legally.

 

Proof is hard to get here, even if he drags his 2nd *known* victim here - police can't do anything. Sure, locals have to bark and fast if that happens.

 

Privacy? F*ck it when people like him are involved.

 

 

what can they acchieve, you ask me? far more than you alone. unless you just go and shoot him, which is not that legal, and chances are high that you will be far longer in prison than he would be.

 

and, sometimes there simply is no solution. this is no perfect world.

professional can also assess how the chances for a positive outcome are, far better than people deciding on an unqualified gutfeeling. and yes, sad as it is, sometimes there is nothing to be done.

in such a case it is better to shift your energies to cases where there is something to be done.

[pattaya127]

Civility please, civility !

-------------------------------

Just tired of the finger pointing and misreading leading to personal axe-grinding.

 

people refuse to debate about the birth given right of the girl if they were to learn from a friend, and also, if their friend is no professional of aids counseling , should he abstain? I mean, if it's bound to happen in thailand, where is that professional help and how good is it really for a farang, when the buddy is a bit tipsy, all excited about the girl he just met 3 days ago, and it's 11 pm?

 

Why the stubborn clear-cutness when life is not so clear-cut?

 

Just tired of people sticking to their argument as if to a plank in the middle of the sea, and refusing to even consider other's choices as worthy as theirs.

 

If I had followed all the professional help that was given to me (school,orientation), and a few laws (illegal to work as tourist in US), I'd be dead bored in a Paris suburb, married, with an impossible boss, a job i hate, 2 cars and house payments up my neck, and staring dreamily at glossy pictures of Thailand in tourist brochures, then looking at the wife and .....sighing!

 

 

[Guest]

>>>people refuse to debate about the birth given right of the girl if they were to learn from a friend, and also, if their friend is no professional of aids counseling , should he abstain? I mean, if it's bound to happen in thailand, where is that professional help and how good is it really for a farang, when the buddy is a bit tipsy, all excited about the girl he just met 3 days ago, and it's 11 pm?<<<

 

 

 

if that hypothetical buddy is a too tipsy to apply common sense than maybe that buddy should not come to play in a known high risk activity.

 

most importantly, it is no use here to get off on hypothetical tangents.

we are here presented with a clear case, where me and a minority of people with a minimum amount of common sense argue with a majority of vigilants who consistently evade the point that there is professional help available, and prefer to choose rash action over reason.

[pattaya127]

if that hypothetical buddy is a too tipsy to apply common sense than maybe that buddy should not come to play in a known high risk activity.

------------------------------------

What, you do, or did not have friends to look for you ever in your life when you were a bit high, silly, or drunk? Really?

 

It's you who keeps making the topic a clear-cut one of absolutely not telling in any circumstances.

 

You have not one time shown even give a glimpse of lending some understanding to the POVs of people who understand yours, but find a lot of space in that topic to have individual input. The vigilante is you, FlyW, because you erect your own POV as rightful and the others wrong and unworthy of interest.

 

All i ever said is that I would make an attempt to tell the person, I find that not harsh, or rushing. I might not even be able to reach the guy or even bother anymore depending on his answer or defensiveness. he may have moved out of towm, closed his phone, hundreds of etc.....

 

Just an attempt, that's all (1)

 

(1) I said earlier if Z wants, i will call the guy. Z does not want or see no point. Fine. Get my point?

[check_bin_krap]

what can they acchieve, you ask me? far more than you alone. unless you just go and shoot him, which is not that legal, and chances are high that you will be far longer in prison than he would be.

 

and, sometimes there simply is no solution. this is no perfect world.

professional can also assess how the chances for a positive outcome are, far better than people deciding on an unqualified gutfeeling. and yes, sad as it is, sometimes there is nothing to be done.

in such a case it is better to shift your energies to cases where there is something to be done. You are missing my point. I am for the local community warning the next girl, if he brings one into it. I am not talking about taking guns in your own hands, bla bla.

 

Let me draw a paralell here. I have a couple of criminal neighboro's who put me in a serious situation, for their own profit half a year ago. After that happened, I have warned the next door neighboro's - and actually the board of the building society also.

 

Did I intrude on their privacy??? As I did not get them convicted of what they tried to do, its their word against mine. However, my neighboros know who they trust and are grateful for my warning.

[Guest]

>>>You have not one time shown even give a glimpse of lending some understanding to the POVs of people who understand yours, but find a lot of space in that topic to have individual input. The vigilante is you, FlyW, because you erect your own POV as rightful and the others wrong and unworthy of interest. <<<

 

 

 

i don't "erect" my "POV" as "rightful" - i argue calmly and with reason, using supporting evidence to build my case. you just go off on tangents avoiding the main point : the original poster has a problem that needs to be solved.

and concerning you calling me a vigilante, i think you should look up the definition of vigilantism in the dictionary, and come back again.

 

 

 

>>>All i ever said is that I would make an attempt to tell the person, I find that not harsh, or rushing. I might not even be able to reach the guy or even bother anymore depending on his answer or defensiveness. he may have moved out of towm, closed his phone, hundreds of etc.....

 

Just an attempt, that's all (1)

 

(1) I said earlier if Z wants, i will call the guy. Z does not want or see no point. Fine. Get my point?<<<

 

 

yeah, just an attempt...but the weaker your position becomes the harder and more emotional you defend it.

i have referred zen to an organisation which has a vast expertise in handling exactly such cases. an organisation which, given the right circumstances, has possibilities which far outreach yours, such as direct medical attention, employment possibilities, legal support, whatever you want.

so, for christ's sake, step back and judge by yourself what is the more qualified advice?!

is it so difficult to agree?