Ex GF and ethical dilemma

[Guest]

i am not exactly missing your point - i try to avoid getting off on to this particular case not-relevant tangents. we have done that a bit too much already, i believe.

 

everybody's point of view has been repeated over and over again, while the basic point has been avoided by your side consistently: what is the right course of action in this particular case?

just telling the boyfriend by yourself?

or consulting with a relevant organisation what course of action to take?

 

all, please just answer to this particular point, after all, THAT is the topic of the thread, innit?

 

wasn't the reason that the thread was started what to practically do in this particular case?

[Guest]

and, to come back on your point, and answer on your tangent

in any case, going to relevant organisations is ALWAYS of an advantage. especially in hard cases such as the one you brought up.

those organisations do, opposed to conventional opinion, not just consist baggy pants wearing do gooders. there are the rare situations where a different sort of action is asked for. sometimes that can involve friendly policemen, and in a country such as thailand it can involve other ways as well.

which, i have to concede, is basically vigilantism, but only employed if all other channels have been used without success, or employed where the other channels have no access to.

[check_bin_krap]

Its *might* be the same as my example. The criminals next to me will go and do crimes in other places as I have warned my neighboro's, I have done right anyway.

 

If the girl volountarily accept help from your professionals - my example is invalid. If she doesn't, what they can do is nothing and I am right.

[Guest]

>>>If the girl volountarily accept help from your professionals - my example is invalid. If she doesn't, what they can do is nothing and I am right. <<<

 

 

nops, you aren't. as i said, those organisations do not necessarily only offer consultation. they might choose to take a different course, which can be using the law, or even telling the man, or advising you to tell.

point is, with whatever course they choose to take - they have a vast resource of experience and therefore are more qualified than going alone based on gutfeeling.

 

there is no logical reason not to go first to the professionals and listen to what they have to say, which more than a few posters have advocated.

and, with consulting i have not just meant that the girl should take up consulting, but to consult in the first place with them what to do best BEFORE taking ANY action. which i have said many times, but i guess that has been lost in course of the thread.

[check_bin_krap]

I agree with your conclusion Fly, seems the organisations in Thailand can do more than here.

 

Except for one thing. When they can act/advice you it might be too late. But the poster has had time to consult this WEB site.....

[Guest]

>>>Except for one thing. When they can act/advice you it might be too late. But the poster has had time to consult this WEB site..... <<<

 

 

the world is not a perfect place.

 

anyhow, thanks. i hope we can put that thread to rest soon.

[check_bin_krap]

Yep, until a thread about "ex BF and ethical dilemma appears".. Well, we don't have many female or gay posters here..

[Guest]

Hi Fly,

 

I doubt anyone here is in disagreement with your thinking. In a perfect world, we could just run off to a professional group, state our concern, and leave the rest up to them.

 

Well.......the professional groups have had 30 freaking years to work their 'magic'. And now where are we? We are in the middle of an epidemic, taking millions of lives every year. They are clearly not the sole answer. Today, very few people on earth, do not know of AIDS, and it's transmission routes.

 

I've always been very clear here, that my position in this particular case, does not transcend to every possible scenario. The case before us, has a girl unwilling to seek help, in any fashion. Her seeking professional help is not an option. She won't even walk down the street to get meds for herself, much less involve herself in counseling, or take any other responsibility for her condition, or anyone elses.

 

So let's stick to her case, in point. She makes professional counseling, a non-option. The question then, is what next? Where should it go from there? We should, as a society, just drop it at that? Leave that option, as our sole option?

 

If that worked, we would not be where we are today, with this mess.

 

It must be said, that many who find out they are infected, just lose reason, and compassion. They don't give a shit anymore. They are walking dead men/women, and all the counseling in the world, are not going to lift their death sentence, so why bother? (in their minds). Although many here might not elect to share personal experiences with this, it does not mean/translate that they are ignorant to the situation.

 

I wasn't going to share this, but I will. My best friend's brother came down with HIV, 8 years ago. His father was a doctor. He was gay, and was living with another male. It became a great delema for him, as to whether to inform his lover of his condition, born from his fear in losing him. He went through a severe depression, and all that it entails, as you might well imagine. In that depression, he questioned his responsibility to informing his partner, due to fear. I knew him more than well enough, as we all did, to know that before him becoming infected, that *not* informing partner, would not have been an option for him, before his condition. With his father being a doctor, he received the very best in counseling, and treatment. But it was not enough. His fears outweighted his responsibilities.

 

A decision was made among all of us, to inform his partner. We all knew partner very well, and were scared shitless for him. We did not want to lose them both. We told infected guy of our decision, and in the end, he went to him himself. My friend died 2 years later, with his partner at his bedside.

 

Professional counseling did not do the trick, because he was not receptive to it. It took his friends/family to force his hand, to do the right thing. And it was something that he was very greatful for, in the end. His partner is alive, and well today. If only left up to the 'counselors', I really question if I could make that statement today. I really do believe that he is alive today, because we did *not* throw all our trust into 'the system'. We knew much better what was needed, than a psychoanalyst stranger, sitting behind a desk, could ever detirmine. And that is not to belittle their value. But I see that as a valuble tool, rather than the complete solution.

 

HT

[soongmak]

[color:"red"] I am seriously disappointed that you have been constnatly looking for a fight with me, where i simply stated my case, and explained time and time again it was up to the individual. [/color]

Stop whining P127. You had no problem making me ridiculous time and time again by mentioning the DOHR, usually in sneaky me-too posts without addressing me personally. When I asked you to come up with a fact, court case, philosophy, anything to back up your opinion that it is all up to the individual, you came up with not a single argument. None whatsoever!

 

[color:"red"] DOHR is an extremely relevant and landmark of humanity, but it is irrelevant in our debate as it speaks for all humans [/color]

You are dead wrong here, period. Here's a definition for you: Human rights, universal rights held to belong to individuals by virtue of their being human, encompassing civil, political, economic, social, and cultural rights and freedoms, and based on the notion of personal human dignity and worth.

 

Did you read that, P127? Rights belonging to the individual. That means that these rights also belong to the HIV-positive girl in this thread. Saying my stance that violating her privacy means violating her human rights is not relevant to this thread is bullshit at best. This document is exactly meant for situations like these.

 

[color:"red"] You are also a coward for not answering my simple question, sticking very closely to the topic. [/color]

You have to take that back P127. I adressed your question already two times before, and you couldn't be bothered to look it up. Maybe you should post less and read more!

 

To repeat your question: "[color:"red"]BTW, so you would rather not being told or merely asked in the most courteous manner if a stranger has your welfare in mind? [/color]"

 

Yes, I would want to be told, goddammit. I told Zaad in the thread "Would you tell? the Poll" and I repeated it in here again. I also added that, although I would definitely like to know, telling me would be wrong, because it breaks the girls' right to privacy. So don't call me a coward, you can't back it up.

 

[color:"red"] I do not like dishonesty [/color]

Talk about mouthing off and not backing it up, I have to say I resent this statement. This is the third time you mention it, and I have asked you two times already to explain your stance about me being dishonest. So far you can't be bothered to explain. This is an accusation that is highly personal and I demand you put your money where your mouth is. :onfire:

[Guest]

>>>A decision was made among all of us, to inform his partner. We all knew partner very well, and were scared shitless for him. We did not want to lose them both. We told infected guy of our decision, and in the end, he went to him himself. My friend died 2 years later, with his partner at his bedside.<<<

 

 

different case alltogether. friends and family - not complete starngers. in that case, IMHO - you have made the right decision. you were the best people to tell - because you were all in a personal relationship with all involved. you were all ready to bear the consequences, and equipped because of your relationship, same cultural background, etc. to take over the responsibility of the whatever the outcome would have been.

my personal guess is that a responsible organisation would have advised you to take the same course of action, maybe only to have a prefessionally trained counciller/psychologist along in case things go wrong.

 

 

 

 

>>>Well.......the professional groups have had 30 freaking years to work their 'magic'. And now where are we? We are in the middle of an epidemic, taking millions of lives every year. <<<

 

 

yeah, and in countries like thailand we are also in a place where the situation is far better than it has been ten, or five years ago. now a large percentage of the infected population has access to free medication and councelling, soon all with have that access. we have a great network of governmental and non-governmental organisations taking care of most aspects of AIDS.

rather good for a developing nation, wouldn't you say so?

 

 

 

>>>So let's stick to her case, in point. She makes professional counseling, a non-option. The question then, is what next? Where should it go from there? We should, as a society, just drop it at that? Leave that option, as our sole option?.......<<<

 

you assume too much.

step by step.

step one: go to get professional advice

step to: wait and see what they have to say

step four: lets talk again

 

everything else comes after. no need to break our head over what might be, or might not be, or might maybe be...