Guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Hi Fly, >>>>>yeah, and in countries like thailand we are also in a place where the situation is far better than it has been ten, or five years ago. now a large percentage of the infected population has access to free medication and councelling, soon all with have that access. we have a great network of governmental and non-governmental organisations taking care of most aspects of AIDS. rather good for a developing nation, wouldn't you say so?<<<< I would very much say so. Yes....It is remarkable the strides Thailand has taken, to address the problem. And are to be commended greatly for their efforts. It is remarkable what has been accomplished, within the time-frame given. I'm also glad you can see/are listening, to my point. Maybe all is not lost here... :: I very much hear you, and the value counseling can play. I agree with that 1,000 %. It *is*, and should be, the very first step. My point is though, Fly, what happens when that no longer becomes an option? It would seem, that here at least, is what we are now looking at. What should happen after that avenue is exhausted? What comes next, beyond direct intervention? HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 >>>My point is though, Fly, what happens when that no longer becomes an option? It would seem, that here at least, is what we are now looking at. What should happen after that avenue is exhausted? What comes next, beyond direct intervention?<<< another "what if"... well, councelling means that many things are considered, possibles scenarios of outcome, etc. so, who knows, maybe after thinking they might even advocate to tell, or they might advocate not to do anything (which would be my guess in this particular case if the girl refuses any councelling) because the chances for a negative outcome (including suicide of the girl) outweight the possible possible outcomes. just remember - one cannot safe the world, sometimes there is not much you can do, and you have to turn away even though it just goes against everything you feel is right. because you tear yourself up running against a brickwall while better spending your energies for causes which have a higher chance of success, because you might have to do even worse things than just turning away to try to achieve something which is a possibly lost cause, and - because you are just not equipped to deal with the consequences of your actions. what else can i say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Hi, >>>>>>just remember - one cannot save the world, sometimes there is not much you can do, and you have to turn away even though it just goes against everything you feel is right. because you tear yourself up running against a brickwall while better spending your energies for causes which have a higher chance of success, because you might have to do even worse things than just turning away to try to achieve something which is a possibly lost cause, and - because you are just not equipped to deal with the consequences of your actions.<<<< Yea....but in this case, it's not a matter of running up against a brick wall. The girl might be a lost cause, as far as getting through to her, but that isn't the debate here. Having the guy obtain knowedge of his deadly situation, is not a brick wall. It is easily obtainable, and can only do him good. Am I equipped to deal with the aftermath? I think I am, as well as anyone else. What if she commits suicide, to her partner being informed? Well...that was something I had to be concerned about with my friend, also. But in the end, I could not control the death of one, but I did have the power to give life to another. I/we chose to not sit on our ass, and make the tough decision to do what was right. We could not stand idily by, and watch a gun pointed to the back of someones head, without screaming "watch out". That was my friend, but I feel no different if were a stranger. Who would I be, to just sit there, and watch someone in mortal danger, and take no action? That doesn't speak very well of me, as a person. Sure... any action could come back to snap me in the ass....but at least I will wake up in the morning, knowing I tried to make a difference. The flip side is watching.....doing nothing, and then reading of the untimely death of the girl's partner. I can't save her, but I am enpowered to save him, or at least, have the power to enlighten him of a deathly, grave danger, to which he is not aware. Knowing we can't save the world, should not translate to just giving up, altogether. We should make a difference, where we can. It's all any of us can do. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 well, and now we are back at square one. based on a "what if" you already plan a map of what you are gonna do. first of all - AIDS in this age is not a *mortal* danger anymore. so far, with proper use of available antiretrovirals life might very possibly not be shortened significantly. and more research is done, AIDS will in foreseeable future maybe not be a cureable desease, but one which get easier and easier to manage. we should start not to think anymore in the outdated panic induced parameters of pre-antiretroviral days. >>>Am I equipped to deal with the aftermath? I think I am, as well as anyone else. What if she commits suicide, to her partner being informed? Well...that was something I had to be concerned about with my friend, also. <<< yeah, that is something to be more than *concerned* about. especially given the thai tendency to simply close out and off themselves when faced with too many problems. how you gonna handle that with your uniliteral mission, how you gonna handle the girl's reaction? are you a trained psychologist? do you have the easy and if necessary fast access to proper institutions? in a country you do not live? >>>That was my friend, but I feel no different if were a stranger. Who would I be, to just sit there, and watch someone in mortal danger, and take no action? That doesn't speak very well of me, as a person.<<< the question is NOT how you *feel*, but how well equipped you are to deal with the consequences. how much quick access to manpower and experts to you have in a country you do not live in when you uniliterally barge into a situation based on how you *feel* about it? especially in a potentially problematic situation in a case such as this where the mainposter knows only one of the involved personally, and you none? >>>I can't save her, but I am enpowered to save him, or at least, have the power to enlighten him of a deathly, grave danger, to which he is not aware. Knowing we can't save the world, should not translate to just giving up, altogether. We should make a difference, where we can. It's all any of us can do.<<< empowered by whom? your conscience, your gutfeeling? who else? grave danger - no! AIDS is not a grave danger anymore. and no, it does not mean to give up, but to properly direct your energies, not go around like an elephant in a china shop. at times it is of advantage to be guided by reason and not by emotion. i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Hi Fly, >>>>AIDS is not a grave danger anymore<<<<< Maybe this is why we are failing to connect. Last I heard, AIDS is an incurable, deadly disease. Particularly notable, are the questioned participants, in this thread. One is a girl who refuses any treatment, and the other is someone who may not know he even needs it. It's great that lives can now be prolonged with the proper drugs/treatment, but that is not the reality in this situation. Guy may not know he is infected, until he comes down with full-blown symptoms. Drug therapy is way too late, at that point. Which is my whole point. If infected, he needs to know that, *yesterday*, to get any meaningful treatment. Don't you see here, FLY? The problems here, are in the fact that niether are receiving treatment. So whatever benefits are in that, are non-applicable to this situation. Khao jai mai? The ultimate goal, is to make it *very* applicable to this situation. The question is, how do we get either to get there? And let's just assume, that counseling is far out of the picture already. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 >>>Guy may not know he is infected, until he comes down with full-blown symptoms. Drug therapy is way too late, at that point. Which is my whole point. <<< well, then you stand against current WHO recommendations regarding the prescription of antiretrovirals. these recommendations state that the earliest recommended point to presribe the combination treatment is when the CD4 count is below 200. by that time you definately know that something seriously is wrong with you as you start getting secondary infections, and any semiqualified doctor will recommend testing for HIV. even to the medically untrained but experienced eye it becomes rather obvious at that stage that AIDS is not to be excluded as the first tell tale signs do show up already. do you understand my point of informing yourself about AIDS and related matters before barging in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 >>>>Its enough to say the HIV level in her blood was twenty times higher than the level at which HIV drugs need to be started.>>>>> That is post from original post, in this thread. This is what we are dealing with here. >>>>>do you understand my point of informing yourself about AIDS and related matters before barging in?<<<< I do have more than a 'passing knowledge', concerning AIDS. My father worked for the CDC, and was stationed in Kinshasa, during intial outbreaks. He is a virologist, involved deeply in the initial research. And I'm not going along the path of 'barging in'. Simply discussing it here, and hearing all wise thoughts spoken. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 WOW - this thread is still going! It must be the record for the most posts in the shortest period of time. nyone's minds changed? Zenless - you still here? DOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 WOW - this thread is still going! It must be the record for the most posts in the shortest period of time. nyone's minds changed? Zenless - you still here? DOG - No point barking up a tree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 I'm here! and still zenseless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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